Wednesday, September 24, 2014
Douglas Horne / New JFK Show #28
On JFK, the ARRB and the Zapruder film. A stellar two-hour presentation by Doug Horne, author of the 5-volume Inside the ARRB. A wealth of information for JFK researchers. This one resembles a conference presentation more than an impromptu radio interview. Strap on your education helmet and hold on tight.
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Doug Horne and Dr Jim Fetzer, with all the other contributors to their research, must be thanked forever.
ReplyDeleteThis was one of the best Real Deal Shows ever. Doug Horne is fabulous.
DeleteClare,
ReplyDeleteWell-stated! These incomparable scholars/investigators have shown us the way to the truth.
James
Thanks for great research. Did you know Gerald Ford admitted that he tampered with the autopsy diagram?
ReplyDeletehttp://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/JFK/ford.html
Gerald Ford forced to admit the Warren Report fictionalized
WASHINGTON (July 2) - "Thirty-three years ago, Gerald R. Ford took pen in hand and changed - ever so slightly - the Warren Commission's key sentence on the place where a bullet entered John F. Kennedy's body when he was killed in Dallas."
[Ford admitted he changed the DIAGRAM--not the "KEY SENTENCE"-- of JFK's back wound with a pen by raising it higher, closer to the neck, in order to support the Warren Commission's theory of the bullet as exit wound in the throat.]
(I see Google has already changed this information from Ford's actual tampering with the diagram to just changing a sentence. Maybe the original news release can be found. I was somewhat recently. I remember hearing Ford say this on TV. He seemed surprised at the fuss being made over this revelation.)
I think he changed the sentence -- maybe the sentence on the diagram? I have only seen it as the sentence in the report.
DeleteCan you find whether he changed the hole marking on the diagram? Everything else suggests that he changed the sentence below or about the diagram.
He changed the description of the wound from "uppermost back" to "back of the neck" to make the "magic bullet" theory more plausible. An article about it appeared in The New York Times early enough for me to include a copy of the article in ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998).
DeleteHi, Jim. Was the description on the diagram itself, or in the text of the Warren book?
DeleteI go back a long way on the JFK assassination so forgive me for throwing some ideas out there. I remember it being said the throat wound was made by a small caliber bullet. It was even suggested the throat wound could have been a dart possibly fired by "umbrella man." Seems the CIA had such devices. Far fetched I know, but when you think about it, a regular bullet wound have hit his cervical vertebrae and there would have been a lot of blood and could he have held his head so erect?
ReplyDeleteIt is my understanding that he didn't hold his head up for long, but did slump, after which Jackie eased him up. (The Zapruder film is fake, redone per frame, as you know from Costella and Fetzer's work, I guess.)
DeleteThere were so many shots, some missing, and even more shooters than maybe ended up taking shots.
Umbrella man couldn't have gotten the front throat shot. The window had a through-and-through hole in it (also denied for years).
Bob Livingston, M.D., world authority on the brain and expert on wound ballistics, told me the bullet had hit bone and fragmented, part going down into the right lung, the other up and severing the tough membrane covering the cerebellum. I discuss this in the videos on YouTube. On the bullet hole, see "The JFK Wars: The challenging case of Robert Groden".
DeleteWould he have been able to hold his head up? Well, it was only a few seconds, probably, until he slumped ... not in the way the Zapruder shows.
DeleteThis broadcast was yet more brilliant work by our good Prof. Fetzer, by golly. Thank goodness we have outstanding veterans like Prof. Fetzer.
ReplyDeleteNice post.
DeleteHe changed the description of the wound from "uppermost back" to "back of the neck" to make the "magic bullet" theory more plausible. An article about it appeared in The New York Times early enough for me to include a copy of the article in ASSASSINATION SCIENCE (1998).
ReplyDeleteThis guy is pretty damn good!
ReplyDeleteIt's so vivid in my mind the image of Ford holding that diagram and showing how he just raised the bullet hole dot indicating the back wound higher. Now, this article doesn't say he played with the wording.
ReplyDeletehttp://oswaldsmother.blogspot.com/2010/04/gerry-ford-beats-dead-horse.html
Gerry Ford Beats a Dead Horse
"Ford was capable of saying things that beggar common sense and do so with a straight, or shall we say, poker face. Just as he did when caught years later moving bullet holes around (his own handwriting, first draft) and when asked responded that he was just trying to be more specific. Uh-huh. Well yes, if you are writing a novel, but this is supposed to be a search for the truth, not history as you go."
"The changing of body wounds on the victim is a misrepresentation of evidence in a murder investigation and presented to the public as a fact. And he seems not to get what he has done. I’m flabbergasted, really. I guess these political types swim in different waters than the rest of us."
He effectively changed it, whether he literally changed the dot or not. Maybe you saw some time he took the diagram in hand, to indicate the "mistake the doctors must have made, since the single bullet was the only option" (assuming the conclusion and making the facts fit it).
DeleteJim Fetzer and Doug Horne - a brilliant combination. This is a great "interview". Doug really is the best and Jim let him talk - only chipping in with his own cogent and thoughtful observations. This is a podcast that will go into my CD library of all my other Doug Horne talks on the JFK assassination and especially on the shenanigans that were rife before, during and after JFK's assassanition and autopsy and shenanigans which continue to this day. Could I take this opportunity to recommend ( I hope Jim won't mind) Len Osanic's 2 hour
ReplyDeletepodcast a few years ago with Doug Horne in which Doug gave a detailed, thorough and exhaustive run down on the events surrounding JFK's autopsy. I have it on CD as I do all of Doug's podcasts.
Doug is a superb speaker and is always a pleasure to listen to as is Jim too, of course. The dynamic duo!! Just one question I would like to ask and that is:
" Why was JFK's autopsy so massively botched?"
There was an attempt to keep the truth of what really happened to JFK from the American people but how was it done? Why were the doctors all so malleable and compliant? Were they threatened to conform with the
ludicrous magic bullet hooey? What threats were used? How were the threats relayed to the doctors at Parkland and Bethesda? By whom and from whom? Was LBJ involved?
I have always thought that LBJ used the bogus threat of nuclear war to make not only the doctors but almost eveybody else toe the Lone Nut assassin nonsense. LBJ used it on Earl Warren telling him if he didn't
comply with LBJ's wishes
and chair the future Warren Commission that 40 million Americans could die in a nuclear war. But who was going to start a nuclear war? LBJ told Senator Russell in a telephone call that Khrushchev (i.e. the Soviets) had nothing to do with the assassination. Was the US going to nuke Russia or Cuba??!! Very unlikely. So on what was this so-called threat of nuclear war based? Was the threat of nuclear war merely a lever to make everybody toe the line - from the doctors to Earl Warren and everybody in between? Was the bogus threat of nuclear war a part of the cover up planned BEFORE the assassination of JFK to ensure the success of the conspiracy? Was the bogus threat of nuclear war a scurrilous appeal to the patriotism of
Americans to go along with the cover up of the conspiracy that resulted in
the assassination of JFK?
If it was, it has certainly worked.
Or has it...?
To paraphrase:
" An appeal to patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel LBJ. "
*
Maybe Jim and Doug have thoughts on why the autopsy and so much else got botched, but I think it's due to having some idea of what they wanted to achieve (the "they" of each specific time and action, as the coverup unfolded), but finding that different groups did things differently.
DeleteIn other words, because the 3 bullets were decided upon but the innocent bystander was injured, they had to try to change things in the body and in the x-rays, but the changes and descriptions of the original state of the body were then at odds. Then, as things got really complicated, they opted with some generalizations about what had happened. They described the headwound in technical terms (a huge wound); no-one knew until much later that this was from the saw; the brain was changed and the x-rays changed as they went.
In the end, there were such conflicts that they glossed over the discrepancies and yes, as with anything else, because researchers are always playing catch-up, if the public and politicos could be deflected long enough, it would seem, as always, that doubters were being contrarian.
Confusion ends up helping coverups, though botching still scares perpetrators.
In the end, until official announcements come out, forget the researchers and science -- in any case of any protracted, big coverup at all. And then time moves on and people say it was long ago, so it's interesting but "who cares"; or they still get upset but have bought the rhetoric that all research is obsessive as a character flaw and dismiss the people who tell them.
Clare Kuehn said:
ReplyDelete"He effectively changed it, whether he literally changed the dot or not. Maybe you saw some time he took the diagram in hand, to indicate the "mistake the doctors must have made, since the single bullet was the only option" (assuming the conclusion and making the facts fit it)."
Yes, Clare, I think you are correct. Ford was probably shown on TV holding a copy of the diagram and pointing to the back bullet hole with a motion indicating how it had been raised. Someone else probably had to change the document. I don't think they had white-out in those days. Nonetheless, those of us witnessing this on TV were aghast. I had forgotten how Ford was almost as dopey as W.
THE CIA KILLED KENNEDY, NOT THE MAFIA OR NIXON OR LBJ. WAKE UP AND CHILL OUT. LISTEN TO MARK LANE: WHY DO YOU THINK THERE IS NO PROGRESS ON THESE EVENTS?
ReplyDeletehttp://jfkfacts.org/assassination/message-from-mark-lane-cool-out-jfk-scholars/
JFKfacts » Mark Lane to JFK skeptics: chill out
Mark Lane, now 86 years old, was the author of “Rush to Judgment,” a 1965 best-seller that crystallized growing public disbelief of the Warren Commission’s findings about the death of JFK.
“They killed our president and have sought, all these years, to continue the cover-up the facts that demonstrate that the CIA with assistance from the Secret Service was involved.
“I started the opposition to the government’s false story almost half a century ago and I am not pleased to see egos and personalities interfere with our joint perspective. How about an end to the name calling by those who share the same evaluation and hopes. How about those of us on the same side starting to work together. It is still our country and there is still work to be done. Just a modest suggestion or two.”Best to all.
Mark”
To say CIA killed JFK says nothing, for WHO controls CIA?--it's the Wall St. "bankers," eh?--Jews--Jews and their sympathizers and cohorts.
DeleteJoan, you're right in emphasizing the intelligence creeps, but the fact is that not only important (as Apsterian partly points out) is the question of who influences CIA a lot (not only Jews), but also who ordered or facilitated the coup (LBJ and Hoover) inside other channels (secret service traitors, etc.), and who helped in other ways (mafia, corporate leaders), is important.
DeleteI think by "CIA" you're meaning not to limit things to one man's orders (LBJ), and the title "LBJ, Mastermind of the JFK Assassination" unfortunately does that, while being nevertheless an excellent study of LBJ, his role and the CIA's, partly.
Best wishes.
Apsterian, all you are doing is identifying one tendency in one religion (Jewish Talmud), then extrapolating to all Jews by their belief structure (which largely subsumes such negative beliefs), then identifying some major players in the power structures of the world, then calling it Satanism.
DeleteYou are only partly correct. I get your clue; you don't get mine.
Clare K.: Babbling Liar
DeleteNo shit, Sherlock--and it's NOT "tendency"--it's explicit commandment--Talmudic commandment of war against humanity, PERIOD.
And I doubt ANYONE gets ur "clue(s)"--I doubt even u get ur own clue, eh?
Talmud is war against gentiles/humanity, PERIOD. So if one is a Talmudist (Jew), then it's reasonable to deduce the Talmudist (Jew) upholds Talmud, hence war against humanity.
Satanism is making oneself God--in case of Jews, they make themselves, collectivistically, God, defining reality to their will (subjectivism). "Truth" being only what they (Jews) say it is.
So satanism is well-defined as extreme, deliberate subjectivism--HUBRIS, by definition--making themselves God, justified in murder, lying, stealing, etc.--as all is demonstrated in reality, including idea/observation Jews are topmost "bankers," directing US Federal Reserve Bank and other central banks, hence leaders, masterminds of organized crime world-wide. And all observers confirm this about Jews. Q.E.D.
Apsterian, if you're at all a genuine antisemite, you could oppose what you say you oppose in much less controversial and therefore more persuasive ways.
DeleteClare, I think you were dead right to remind us all here that we owe a debt of gratitude to the serious scientific researchers of the JFK assassination and other issues such as Fetz and Horne. No-one in the threads here despite the general attitude of cocky superiority has contributed much if anything original.
And Clare, before I listen to your shows on Paul McCartney, is there a single point of evidence you would point to - photograph, witness testimony, document etc. - that you would say is the strongest single item to impress your case about the death/replacement of McC?
Nick: as usual, u're just a stupid, Jewwy liar. Anti-Semitism is the ultimate sin for present Jew-oriented culture and is hence most "controversial" no matter how u say it or put it.
Delete"Persuasive"?--that's quite subjective, isn't it?--and who cares about a moron like u, anyway?
Notice the abrupt cut at around 14 seconds in this Zapruder film copy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7rLYh52fPE
ReplyDeleteThat's enough time for them to have replaced JFK with a plastic dummy operated with wires by someone in the trunk of the limo. And explosives mounted in the dummy's head to simulate a head shot. Watch how Jackie is holding JFK/the dummy in a rigid position as if being prepared for the coming explosion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU83R7rpXQY
Also notice the solemn bystanders who instead of cheering and waving look like a bunch of extras: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwy6Q9_cUwc
On a second though, operating a dummy would have been too complicated. Instead there was no head shot! The exploding head was added to the Zapruder film. In the Nix film there is no exploding head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLERm5sKGSY
DeleteHmm... Or there could be a head shot even in the Nix film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU4mAVCprAU
DeleteHard to tell. Anyway, my latest guess is that the whole JFK assassination was a complete hoax.
Excellent Anders: u actually bring-up an excellent philosophic pt.--HOW, in pt. of fact, do we distinguish btwn hoax and truth/reality?--is there a reality in the first place?--or is reality itself a hoax?--How can we know?--Can we know anything?
DeleteHmmmmmm. Good thing, Prof. Fetzer is philosophic sort, by golly.
@apsterian My guess of a hoax is based on the Zapruder film looking so staged. Look at the bystanders. And watch Jackie's behavior. Looks very rehearsed and mechanical. And her "acting" is coordinated with Connally's.
DeleteWell, so what are u saying?--that Jackie and Connally were in on it?
DeleteConnally was LBJ's campaign manager, so I wouldn't be too surprised about his complicity, but Jackie?--I wouldn't be soooo sure--that second thesis might need more evidence, eh? Ho o ho ho ho
Anders: Zapruder film is a composite, frame by frame doctored.
DeleteIt's one of Dr Jim Fetzer's great achivements to assist and promote the work of Dr Costella.
Intro:
www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/hoax
Response to critics, using book as reference:
www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/hoax/costella1.html
Book (based on conference hosted by Jim, 2003), edited by Jim:
http://www.amazon.ca/The-Great-Zapruder-Film-Hoax/dp/081269547X
Videos of conference on Youtube. However, best to go through stuff above.
For example, after JFK has (supposedly) been hit in the throat, Jackie focuses her attention intensely on Connally! And she waits until Connally turns his head and then takes a firm grip on JFK and waits for the explosion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU83R7rpXQY
Delete@Clare Kuehn Yes, I believe that could be the case. That the Zapruder film has been edited. I believe for example now that the head shot can have been added onto a sequence without a head shot. And the body and head movement of JFK can actually have been caused by Jackie which would explain her rigid and strong peculiar grip on JFK just before the head shot.
DeleteHi, Anders: it was more than edited. It was doctored, frame by frame, in sequences needed to give certain impressions.
DeleteWith frames which cannot come from any camera on any planet, it was remade completely.
Anders Lindman must be Simon Shack in one of his many guises. His remarks are just as unfounded and bizarre as those of Simon or the others who deny the existence of atomic bombs.
DeleteJim, I know people who are as confused by the film as he; I also know people who don't go to the level of wondering whether all the events of JFK were to hide a fake death, or Jackie's doing it to Jack, but do go over and over the same ground you and others have solved, as if you had not.
DeleteSome are merely ill informed, but some are convinced there are still many things to know in this case, when lots is now known. The radical doubters are a form of this, adding the aspect though that they do not know how to apply common sense inside a case (i.e., often, and only reluctantly to shift away from a commonsense impression).
@Jim Fetzer But think about all the conflicting JFK autopsy information you and others have researched so extensively. If the JFK assassination was a hoax, then that fits the conflicting autopsy information well.
DeleteMy understanding is that a midget operated from the glove compartment. Six fast shots, each for every sniper listed.
ReplyDeleteWe already know that Kennedies plan very carefully their fate. Why they do it, I don't know. There is no need to believe JFK was an exception, nor that he was the first to depart this way. The clan has very long roots, back to the Battle at Waterloo and even further down in history. Jim is milking this cow for five decades holding onto this Zapruder bitsy film when there is a multitude of images made by other photographers he tends to avoid. A true researcher should be aware that cross referencing is the most important part of crime investigation.
Zapruder film is a composite, frame by frame doctored.
DeleteIt's one of Dr Jim Fetzer's great achivements to assist and promote the work of Dr Costella.
Intro:
www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/hoax
Response to critics, using book as reference:
www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/hoax/costella1.html
Book (based on conference hosted by Jim, 2003), edited by Jim:
http://www.amazon.ca/The-Great-Zapruder-Film-Hoax/dp/081269547X
Videos of conference on Youtube. However, best to go through stuff above.
Great research about the conflicting JFK autopsy evidence presented in the show. I would add to the mix the possibility that there wasn't even any actual body! In other words, a complete hoax.
ReplyDeleteNo. That goes to throw out all common sense, not use it where appropriate. The all-hoax idea crept in from the doctored film almost exclusively, and some bad photoanalysis of what Jackie's skirt would look like, almost exclusively by Culto.
DeleteIt has muddied some minds. It is not supportable in its own right and also goes against common sense properly applied. Let it not muddy your mind.
The autopsy, if there was one was carried by the same folk who dig the grave and made the movies. The conflicting evidence should also be expected. They always come out with the so called 'conflicting evidence'. If there were no conflicting evidence in the autopsy, now that would be a conflicting evidence!
ReplyDeleteRadical doubt is not a sane posture; deeply doubting until resifting information, but with common sense never forgotten, is sane.
DeleteOne must not throw out all common sense, just use it where appropriate. The all-hoax idea crept in from the doctored film almost exclusively, and some bad photoanalysis of what Jackie's skirt would look like, almost exclusively by Culto.
It has muddied some minds. It is not supportable in its own right and also goes against common sense properly applied. Let it not muddy your mind.
You discovered ways no planes could be done on TV and discovered at least some inflation of the numbers of dead on 9/11. For these you are in the history books of researchers. You don't need to sully your work.
Why did Lyndon Johnson travel in another car? Because he was tricked! They fooled LBJ to believe JFK had been assassinated. Why? As a part of a plan behind the plan. LBJ maybe even had planned the assassination but didn't know there was an even bigger plan going on above him. That bigger plan involved building the World Trade Center to later be demolished in another gigantic hoax decades later. Long term planning with the goal of bringing down the media-military industrial complex and replacing it with the REAL New World Order.
ReplyDeleteNonsense: he travelled in another car to be safe & watch his rival die. Where the heck did you lose control of common sense?
DeleteIt is one thing to use new information to change common sense into a new sense, but at every level, in every line of reasoning, it must be brought back as soon as possible. Lots in life is ordinary.
Culto's analysis is flawed in every main detail, thus his broader connection-making goes off the rails for concluding. Get a grip.
Yes, there was a bigger trend, which can be called an oligarchic conspiracy (think-alike), but not the level you attribute with WTC & 9/11 already planned, from any indication. Things develop, too, you know.
The New World Order is a catch-all phrase for any dream oligarchs push toward their benefit, using apocalypticism quite often.
And there was a JFK death, by any reasonable inference, barring what's called radical doubt, which does not mean trying out all doubts, but rather forgetting where doubt becomes unreasonable.
@Clare Kuehn That LBJ was fooled is just my speculation. But I do believe the JFK assassination may have been a hoax. And LBJ may have been in on it or not.
DeleteTo Clare re the CIA as JFK ASSASSIN:
ReplyDeleteHow to put this concisely? For me, tracking the activities of the US Central Intelligence Agency for the past fifty years has been difficult, but not as difficult as it is today due to the abundance of pro-CIA authors and journalists, history is being rewritten and censorship is the rule. There seems to be less and less material on the Internet.
Most of you of the baby boomer generation are unaware what has been done in their name by this paramilitary army. Since its inception in 1947 under the National Security Act, the agency has become more and more autonomous and with a huge black budget which is accountable to no one. It serves the interests of big business, such as the United Fruit Company, and makes its own policies.
I'm posting a few articles I found to make my case that the CIA is a dangerous force and once anyone knows the scope of its black activities, she is forever changed. That's why I ask all the conspiracy doubters to read up on these facts because the CIA does NOT work for what we think of as American values and freedom, but rather, works against them. Anytime the leader of a foreign government decides to "nationalize" or reform conditions to the the betterment of its people, it can expect to be attacked. (See article on Guatemala coup.)
By 1963, the CIA had deposed the leader of Iran and installed the Shah and had staged many coups and assassinations. They work outside of the law, so they don't really need "permission." Legalities and international law don't apply to them.
One motive for offing JFK was their one big failure and humiliation-- the Bay of Pigs--which was planned by Nixon BEFORE the 1960 election, JFK had no choice than to go along with it but made it clear that he would not send air power. The CIA expected the locals would revolt and join the Batista Cuban exiles and US "liberating" forces. After the huge failure, Kennedy fired CIA director Allen Dulles and other officials such as Richard Bissell. He spoke of smashing the CIA into a thousand pieces and meant it.
JFK also had many changes in mind that would affect big business and to these important "American interests" JFK could not be allowed to be re-elected president. Did LBJ know about these plans? I don't know. In all these years, this question never came up. Not once.
It is my opinion the CIA carried this assassination out with only the nods from big business and finance. Why LBJ would be considered to be "pivotal" is beyond me. Perhaps it is because I'm from an earlier generation and it is dying off. I fear the rewriting of history is aimed at you of later generations. The truth is being buried.
http://thetruthisnow.com/headlines/cia-covert-op-1954-guatemalan-coup-detat/
CIA Covert Op – 1954 Guatemalan Coup D’état
The 1954 Guatemalan coup d’état (18–27 June 1954) was the CIA covert operation that deposed President Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán (1950–54), with Operation PBSUCCESS — paramilitary invasion by an anti-Communist “army of liberation”.
In the early 1950s, the politically liberal, elected Árbenz Government had effected the socio-economics of Decree 900 (27 June 1952),..... for peasant use and ownership, of unused prime-farmlands that Guatemalan and multinational corporations had set aside as reserved business assets.
The Decree .....threatened the agricultural monopoly of the United Fruit Company (UFC), the American multinational corporation that owned 42 per cent of the arable land of Guatemala.......
Appendix III: U.S. Government Assassination Plots – William Blum
ReplyDeletehttp://williamblum.org/chapters/killing-hope/us-government-assassination-plots
Following is a list of prominent foreign individuals whose assassination (or planning for same) the United States has been involved in since the end of the Second World War. The list does not include several assassinations in various parts of the world carried out by anti-Castro Cubans employed by the CIA and headquartered in the United States.
1950s, 1962 - Sukarno, President of Indonesia
1951 - Kim Il Sung, Premier of North Korea
1953 - Mohammed Mossadegh, Prime Minister of Iran
1955 - Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India
1957 - Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt
1959, 1963, 1969 - Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia
1960 - Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq
1950s-70s - José Figueres, President of Costa Rica, two attempts on his life
1961 - Francois “Papa Doc” Duvalier, leader of Haiti
1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo (Zaire)
1961 - Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic
1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam
1960s-70s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, many attempts on his life
1960s - Raúl Castro, high official in government of Cuba
1965 - Francisco Caamaño, Dominican Republic opposition leader
1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France
1967 - Che Guevara, Cuban leader
1970 - Salvador Allende, President of Chile
1970 - Gen. Rene Schneider, Commander-in-Chief of Army, Chile
1970s, 1981 - General Omar Torrijos, leader of Panama
1972 - General Manuel Noriega, Chief of Panama Intelligence
1975 - Mobutu Sese Seko, President of Zaire
1976 - Michael Manley, Prime Minister of Jamaica
1980-1986 - Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya, several plots and attempts upon his life
1982 - Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of Iran
1983 - Gen. Ahmed Dlimi, Moroccan Army commander
1983 - Miguel d’Escoto, Foreign Minister of Nicaragua
1984 - The nine comandantes of the Sandinista National Directorate
1985 - Sheikh Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanese Shiite leader (80 people killed in the attempt)
1991 - Saddam Hussein, leader of Iraq
1993 - Mohamed Farah Aideed, prominent clan leader of Somalia
1998, 2001-2 - Osama bin Laden, leading Islamic militant
1999 - Slobodan Milosevic, President of Yugoslavia
2002 - Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Afghan Islamic leader and warlord
2003 - Saddam Hussein and his two sons
2011 - Muammar Qaddafi, leader of Libya
I know, Joan. I made the point that it's fair to name the black operators (the CIA) and also the politicos that order them or help. It's also fair to look into the influences on the CIA in its own right, as if it were not a fully government agency. And there were non-US government (CIA or politico) elements who helped, too.
Deletehttp://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/11/21/jfk_verdict/
ReplyDeleteConfession, jury verdict prove CIA killed JFK | Veterans Today
The CIA has covered up the JFK assassination by brainwashing the public into believing “we’ll never really know the truth.” To that end, it has spread vast amounts of disinformation, including ludicrous theories that JFK’s wife Jackie, or limousine driver William Greer, fired the fatal shots.
The CIA’s Operation Mockingbird program, which infiltrates the corporate media and uses it as a brainwashing tool, pushed the term “conspiracy theorist” into widespread circulation to discredit anyone who told the truth about the JFK assassination. The purpose was to frighten people into a psychological state of denial, in which they would say “we’ll never know who killed JFK,” rather than facing the simple and obvious fact that the CIA killed JFK.
The media mockingbirds endlessly repeat the mantra, “But surely, in a conspiracy as large and complex as you’re suggesting, someone would have talked!” They hope the public will not bother to learn that a great many whistleblowers HAVE talked – including some who paid with their lives.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clare, How many of the hundreds of authors of books on JFK have made the case that this was a coup d'etat planned and carried out by the CIA? Mark Lane is the only one I know of.
I see, yes Lane is direct about the main doers (CIA co-ordination and arrangements -- including fake badges).
DeleteMaybe you feel the other researchers don't give enough emphasis to CIA involvement.
But almost all are trying to fit all the elements in, which need mentioning.
Joan, It was more complicated than that. See any of
ReplyDelete(1) "What happened to JFK--and why it matters today" (2011);
(2) "JFK at 50: The Who, the How and the Why" (2012); or
(3) "JFK 50th: The Assassination of America" (2013).
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08/16/the-first-great-american-coup-jfk-assassination/
Deletehttp://dissidentvoice.org/2013/11/kennedys-assassination-is-the-coup-dtat-that-dare-not-speak-its-name/
http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/after-jfk-assassination-true-coup-detat.html?m=1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00GQDM3M8?pc_redir=1408521519&robot_redir=1
http://jfkcoupdetat.wordpress.com/
If the CIA had nothing to hide, why did they go to such great lengths to sabotage the Garrison trial and the HSCA? Has anyone written about Walter Sheridan who was assigned the role of bringing down Jim Garrison's case? What about the undermining of the HSCA?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ctka.net/home.html
"Shoot Him Down" NBC, the CIA and Jim Garrison
The real attack on Garrison came from the mainstream media, including an NBC reporter who had formerly worked for the CIA, NSA, and Robert Kennedy - Walter Sheridan. The Justice Dept. also played a role, including taking the step of flying JFK autopsy doctor Boswell to New Orleans during the trial to be ready to rescue his floundering colleague, Dr. Finck.........
The Final Cover-Up:
How The CIA Controlled The House Select Committee on Assassinations
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/
......"Any followers of CIA activities connected with the JFK assassination, since 1963, must ask the question, how did they do it?
How did they produce the final cover-up? The answer is that the CIA controlled the HSCA and its investigation and findings from the early part of 1977, forward. The methods they used were as clever and devious as any they had used previously to control the Warren Commission, the Rockefeller Commission, the Garrison Investigation, the Schweiker/Hart Committee[2] and the efforts of independent researchers.
Who said the CIA had nothing to hide? The CIA did it (in the main sense), but who ordered them, inside & outside government?
DeleteAnd who else participated at the CIA's request or by requesting of the gov't (LBJ's cronies) or by requesting the other backers of the event?
Several groups of mafias and political fanatics wanted in.
Apsterian, I never said some Jewish elements are unimportant; I said you make no distinctions within Jewry as a whole, Jewish groups at the top, other groups as a whole and at the top.
Deleteu "said"?--u're ALWAYS babbling some brainless, moronic, stupid crap--like about Jews not deserving condemnation for their putrid, anti-Christ, satanic religion, u following the suicidal custom of always making excuses for them, always defending them--always talking ignorantly. It's stupid people like u who are much to blame for the problems of Jew S A, now in horrific Spenglerian "Decline of the West."
Deleteapsterian picked up the concept of "Spenglerian" and repeats it ad nauseam.
DeleteHey, ap, why not just repeat again how people who see your position yet expand it are the flawed ones?
You refuse to see that traditions which did not derive from Jewry in any normal way, can be identified on their own terms.
You also think people are moronic or antipatriotic, who point out that blanket statements about Jews are unhelpful, discredit us to most people, are bigoted, for to you Jewry is not a spiritual religion so much as a means & method of evil thinking (evil in the sense of bad, that is, harmful actions).
You do not recognize that for most people most of the time, inside Jewry and not, Jewish faith is more spiritual than you grant.
Clare K.--Continues With More Babbling Idiocy
DeleteClare: as usual, u're just a psycho who babbles idiotically and, actually, incoherently too.
And now we see u're an expert on "traditions" of Jews, but as usual u give no premises for ur idiot conclusion(s), such as they are, or any citations--u're just a babbling, ignorant moron.
Yes indeed, u are "moronic," just as u admit, and as I've explained numerous times, in detail. As usual u just assert idiotically: u're "dis-credited" for excellent reasons, as I've noted, but I'm not--certainly not to any rational people. And if u notice, u can observe I now have about 4-6 kikes desperately agitating against me, ho ho ho ho ho
And I don't know why, but Fetzer says my accurate characterizations of u might get me removed, so quit ur babbling which causes me to speak un-welcome truth about u, ho ho ho ho ho
Why didn't you guys discuss the smell of gunpowder at street level and west of the overpass?
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