When you consider the Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's prohibition of nuclear weapons, you should keep in mind that Muslims are permitted to lie to non-believers in the interest of the faith. Sura 3:54 says that Allah himself is the best deceiver. The Hadith (Bukhari 52:269) permits deceit in warfare and (Bukhari 49:857) denies that telling an untruth is lying when the goal is to achieve peace, see http://www.muslimhope.com/DeceptionInIslam.htm and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/011-taqiyya.htm
However, when you balance this caveat of mine with all the thoroughly exposed deception put forth by the spiritual masters of the State of Israel, the U.S., and the U.K., the diplomacy of the Iranian leadership stands out as a paradigm of the true and just. As for religious authority, I could cite the (fictional) Apostle Paul with his famous counsel: "By their deeds you shall know them."
Would a nuclear defense capability make things safer for Iran? If it were so, I'd say get on with building one; and it would be fully within the rights of the sovereign Nation of Iran to do so. But, judging by the willingness of the psychotic leadership of Israel to perpetrate just about any act of infamy in the interest of Zionist realpolitik, regardless of the risk to the Jews of the State of Israel (supposedly the last bastion of safety for world Jewry), I can't see how an Iranian nuclear arsenal could serve as a reliable deterrent. It's up to the sane and serious people (menschn) among us to find a solution. As a bit of Jewish wisdom says: "A fool can throw a stone into the water that it takes 50 wise men to pull out again."
Jim, please stop giving a one-sided picture of the Holocaust. Yes, the Zionists have lied, but it's a sore point for Jews when they hear someone giving succor to the Third Reich and offering not a word of blame for those who perpetrated the well-documented disenfranchisement, imprisonment, and torture of (what was in the main) an innocent ethnic minority - even if you don't buy ANY of the murder. Yes, "Semite" means any of a whole group of Middle Eastern peoples, but the term 'antisemitic' (or 'anti-Semitic') has a well-established usage in English-speaking countries. There is a better way to go after Zionism, which is a virus that afflicts otherwise decent people who wrongly fear that killing the disease would kill the patient.
Thanks for the correction, scholastics! Actually, you're right: it WAS Jesus who said it, and the word used was karpoi (fruits). But is the spirit of Jesus' words any different if karpôn is translated by 'deeds'? Fault me for erroneously crediting Paul, who DID teach this, for instance in Galatians 5:19-21.
If the charge of hypocrisy is due to an observed lack of impartiality in my treatment of Christianity and Islam, notice that I didn't say that any of the Qur'an or Hadith is more than fiction, either. The plea to Jim concerns a strictly secular issue (not involving ANY insensitivity to RELIGION), so the charge of hypocrisy hardly applies there; clearly, any honest person would have understood that when I referred to "Jews" I was referencing an ETHNICITY.
Elsewhere I've stated that I'm a practicing atheist, and I've also given a link to a preview of Joe Atwill's "Caesar's Messiah", which advances the "Flavian Thesis", holding that the Flavian caesars invented the historical Jesus. Atwill cites evidence that the Apostle Paul was also invented by the same Jewish scholars who were employed to write the (fictional) Gospels. As Atwill is fond of saying, "Caesar wears Christianity as a mask." The counsel I erroneously attributed to Paul to judge someone by his deeds was very likely one known to ethicists and astute politicians throughout the ancient world: so, when constructing the fictional character of Jesus (or the Apostle), it would be natural to put that counsel into his mouth. Just as Roman Catholic doctrine was written into the Qur'an - for which there is considerable evidence.
In spite of my conviction that the Flavian Thesis is correct, I've made the point to Joe Atwill more than once that, just because the "sacred" books are works of Roman fiction, we shouldn't assume that the words found within them might not be reflections of a true Christianity that continued to exist among the common people. Or, for that matter, a true Islam among those of the ummah (the Muslim koinonia) or a continuation of an authentic Jewish ethical tradition that survived the compromise with the Romans that produced the Talmud (Atwill has claimed the latter). There is very strong evidence that a higher ethical tradition in each case was already present or grew up in parallel, and was plagiarized and suppressed.
I don't personally accept faith or claims of divine revelation as adequate guides for judgement. However, having studied religion formally (nearly 50 years ago, so fault me for forgetting that it was Jesus, not Paul, who offered the test for a false prophet) and having read extensively on the subject (with the goal of promoting justice, not scholastic pedantry), I have come to realize that there is more to the Abrahamic traditions, as preserved by common believers (by whose DEEDS they can be known), than can be explained by the machinations of the Roman empire, whether in the hands of the caesars or the sycophants within the Vatican. And, for that reason, I generally try to avoid offending believers (without success in this case, apparently) because I don't dismiss the ethical cores of their traditions, which I believe are INDEPENDENT of the actions of the "holy" men, who in each OFFICIAL tradition acted as agents of the political power. I suspect that this explanation offers little comfort to the fundamentalists and literalists among you, but it's often difficult to steer a safe course through an open forum such as this one - being careful both to proclaim the whole truth and not offend sensibilities. I may not always be successful, but my intention is always to adhere to the counsel of one of my heroes (honestly!), the Christian martyr Jan Hus, whose motto was: "Seek the truth, hear the truth, learn the truth, love the truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, and defend the truth until death."
Jim, I wish you'd ask the guests early on what their plane position is. I could go to the next podcast much earlier when knowing they're deep in lala land.
You're missing the point, bombastics!! You cited the "fictional" Apostle Paul as having said the words "By their deeds you shall know them." Now you're carping on about your "karpoi". How the "fictional" Apostle Paul could have said anything about anything must rank as some kind of miracle.
How DO "fictional" Apostles - Paul or otherwise actually manage to speak?
It's all in your mind!!
Wherefore by their crazy posts ye shall know them and it's all Greek to them!!
Mr. Fetzer: Regarding John Kimber's interest in finding a lawyer to go after Obama and Napolitano, are you familiar with the Rutherford Institute (https://www.rutherford.org/)? John Whitehead is a constitutional lawyer who is aware and concerned with the oncoming police state, and is actively fighting it. This might be resoure to investigate for the American genocide issue. Here's some info:
TRI's 2011 Statistical Highlights
Please take a moment to review the following 2011 Statistical Highlights, and you’ll see what your support means to us:
1,448 requests for legal assistance were handled by Rutherford Institute staff, and more than 68 cases involving violations of civil and human rights moved through various stages of pre-litigation and litigation, including several cases that were appealed directly to the United States Supreme Court. Institute staff provided training and support to a national affiliate network of over 1,700 volunteer attorneys, many of whom were trained and educated on pertinent case law and provided with research support and funding for court expenses in order to defend cases in their region and field of law. More than 40,000 individuals and news organizations in the United States and around the globe received weekly alerts on Institute cases, breaking news relating to encroachments on our constitutional rights and issue-related commentaries were sent to.
Brilliant John and I have to agree with your assertion of the plane crashing into the South Tower. The plane had no windows, a protruding bulge from the bottom and finally a painted plane body not of American Airlines.
So much talk and a distinguished level of cowardice in the face of a genocide in America perhaps around the world.
Thanks for your comments. The evidence of a Conspiracy To Commit Genocide in America is very strong, and mysterious technologies were not required on 9/11:-
One thing that has always bothered me about the holocaust claims is the fact that rarely is any mention made of the fact that along with Jews the Nazis included Gypsies, homosexuals, those intellectually challenged, the Jehovah's Witnesses (at the direct request of the Pope I suspect) and others.
When you consider the Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's prohibition of nuclear weapons, you should keep in mind that Muslims are permitted to lie to non-believers in the interest of the faith. Sura 3:54 says that Allah himself is the best deceiver. The Hadith (Bukhari 52:269) permits deceit in warfare and (Bukhari 49:857) denies that telling an untruth is lying when the goal is to achieve peace, see
ReplyDeletehttp://www.muslimhope.com/DeceptionInIslam.htm and
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/011-taqiyya.htm
However, when you balance this caveat of mine with all the thoroughly exposed deception put forth by the spiritual masters of the State of Israel, the U.S., and the U.K., the diplomacy of the Iranian leadership stands out as a paradigm of the true and just. As for religious authority, I could cite the (fictional) Apostle Paul with his famous counsel: "By their deeds you shall know them."
Would a nuclear defense capability make things safer for Iran? If it were so, I'd say get on with building one; and it would be fully within the rights of the sovereign Nation of Iran to do so. But, judging by the willingness of the psychotic leadership of Israel to perpetrate just about any act of infamy in the interest of Zionist realpolitik, regardless of the risk to the Jews of the State of Israel (supposedly the last bastion of safety for world Jewry), I can't see how an Iranian nuclear arsenal could serve as a reliable deterrent. It's up to the sane and serious people (menschn) among us to find a solution. As a bit of Jewish wisdom says: "A fool can throw a stone into the water that it takes 50 wise men to pull out again."
Jim, please stop giving a one-sided picture of the Holocaust. Yes, the Zionists have lied, but it's a sore point for Jews when they hear someone giving succor to the Third Reich and offering not a word of blame for those who perpetrated the well-documented disenfranchisement, imprisonment, and torture of (what was in the main) an innocent ethnic minority - even if you don't buy ANY of the murder. Yes, "Semite" means any of a whole group of Middle Eastern peoples, but the term 'antisemitic' (or 'anti-Semitic') has a well-established usage in English-speaking countries. There is a better way to go after Zionism, which is a virus that afflicts otherwise decent people who wrongly fear that killing the disease would kill the patient.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteJews are rejecting Zionist lies, even, or maybe especially, in Israel.
DeleteSo, you warn Jim about poor choices of wording, atlantabill, and then you proceed to call St. Paul "fictional"?
ReplyDeleteYou're sure no Dale Carnegie graduate, are you?
(Being a hypocrite is NEVER hip!)
Nice one, Andy!! LOL
ReplyDeleteatlantabill:
" I could cite the (fictional) Apostle Paul with his famous counsel: "By their deeds you shall know them." "
Perhaps the "fictional"(?!) Apostle Paul was having a bad hair day when he paraphrased Jesus' words:-
" By their fruits ye shall know them. "
Matthew 7:15-16
OR on the other hand you could cite what the Apostle Paul actually said.
Hip Hip Hurray, Andy!!
Thanks for the correction, scholastics! Actually, you're right: it WAS Jesus who said it, and the word used was karpoi (fruits). But is the spirit of Jesus' words any different if karpôn is translated by 'deeds'? Fault me for erroneously crediting Paul, who DID teach this, for instance in Galatians 5:19-21.
ReplyDeleteIf the charge of hypocrisy is due to an observed lack of impartiality in my treatment of Christianity and Islam, notice that I didn't say that any of the Qur'an or Hadith is more than fiction, either. The plea to Jim concerns a strictly secular issue (not involving ANY insensitivity to RELIGION), so the charge of hypocrisy hardly applies there; clearly, any honest person would have understood that when I referred to "Jews" I was referencing an ETHNICITY.
Elsewhere I've stated that I'm a practicing atheist, and I've also given a link to a preview of Joe Atwill's "Caesar's Messiah", which advances the "Flavian Thesis", holding that the Flavian caesars invented the historical Jesus. Atwill cites evidence that the Apostle Paul was also invented by the same Jewish scholars who were employed to write the (fictional) Gospels. As Atwill is fond of saying, "Caesar wears Christianity as a mask." The counsel I erroneously attributed to Paul to judge someone by his deeds was very likely one known to ethicists and astute politicians throughout the ancient world: so, when constructing the fictional character of Jesus (or the Apostle), it would be natural to put that counsel into his mouth. Just as Roman Catholic doctrine was written into the Qur'an - for which there is considerable evidence.
In spite of my conviction that the Flavian Thesis is correct, I've made the point to Joe Atwill more than once that, just because the "sacred" books are works of Roman fiction, we shouldn't assume that the words found within them might not be reflections of a true Christianity that continued to exist among the common people. Or, for that matter, a true Islam among those of the ummah (the Muslim koinonia) or a continuation of an authentic Jewish ethical tradition that survived the compromise with the Romans that produced the Talmud (Atwill has claimed the latter). There is very strong evidence that a higher ethical tradition in each case was already present or grew up in parallel, and was plagiarized and suppressed.
I don't personally accept faith or claims of divine revelation as adequate guides for judgement. However, having studied religion formally (nearly 50 years ago, so fault me for forgetting that it was Jesus, not Paul, who offered the test for a false prophet) and having read extensively on the subject (with the goal of promoting justice, not scholastic pedantry), I have come to realize that there is more to the Abrahamic traditions, as preserved by common believers (by whose DEEDS they can be known), than can be explained by the machinations of the Roman empire, whether in the hands of the caesars or the sycophants within the Vatican. And, for that reason, I generally try to avoid offending believers (without success in this case, apparently) because I don't dismiss the ethical cores of their traditions, which I believe are INDEPENDENT of the actions of the "holy" men, who in each OFFICIAL tradition acted as agents of the political power. I suspect that this explanation offers little comfort to the fundamentalists and literalists among you, but it's often difficult to steer a safe course through an open forum such as this one - being careful both to proclaim the whole truth and not offend sensibilities. I may not always be successful, but my intention is always to adhere to the counsel of one of my heroes (honestly!), the Christian martyr Jan Hus, whose motto was: "Seek the truth, hear the truth, learn the truth, love the truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, and defend the truth until death."
Jim,
ReplyDeleteI wish you'd ask the guests early on what their plane position is. I could go to the next podcast much earlier when knowing they're deep in lala land.
Holographic planes, and/or widespread video fakery, were not required on 9/11:-
Deletehttp://johnkimber.wordpress.com/2013/02/14/911-logic
You're missing the point, bombastics!!
ReplyDeleteYou cited the "fictional" Apostle Paul as having said the words "By their deeds you shall know them." Now you're carping on about your "karpoi". How the "fictional" Apostle Paul could have said anything about anything must rank as some kind of miracle.
How DO "fictional" Apostles - Paul or otherwise actually manage to speak?
It's all in your mind!!
Wherefore by their crazy posts
ye shall know them and it's
all Greek to them!!
Mr. Fetzer: Regarding John Kimber's interest in finding a lawyer to go after Obama and Napolitano, are you familiar with the Rutherford Institute (https://www.rutherford.org/)? John Whitehead is a constitutional lawyer who is aware and concerned with the oncoming police state, and is actively fighting it. This might be resoure to investigate for the American genocide issue.
ReplyDeleteHere's some info:
TRI's 2011 Statistical Highlights
Please take a moment to review the following 2011 Statistical Highlights,
and you’ll see what your support means to us:
1,448 requests for legal assistance were handled by Rutherford Institute staff, and more than 68 cases involving violations of civil and human rights moved through various stages of pre-litigation and litigation, including several cases that were appealed directly to the United States Supreme Court.
Institute staff provided training and support to a national affiliate network of over 1,700 volunteer attorneys, many of whom were trained and educated on pertinent case law and provided with research support and funding for court expenses in order to defend cases in their region and field of law.
More than 40,000 individuals and news organizations in the United States and around the globe received weekly alerts on Institute cases, breaking news relating to encroachments on our constitutional rights and issue-related commentaries were sent to.
Thanks, interesting, and potentially useful. I did approach several "anti-genocide" legal groups - no replies.
DeleteBrilliant John and I have to agree with your assertion of the plane crashing into the South Tower. The plane had no windows, a protruding bulge from the bottom and finally a painted plane body not of American Airlines.
ReplyDeleteSo much talk and a distinguished level of cowardice in the face of a genocide in America perhaps around the world.
Thanks for your comments. The evidence of a Conspiracy To Commit Genocide in America is very strong, and mysterious technologies were not required on 9/11:-
Deletehttp://johnkimber.wordpress.com/2013/02/14/fetzer-interview-2/
http://johnkimber.wordpress.com/2013/02/14/911-logic/
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that has always bothered me about the holocaust claims is the fact that rarely is any mention made of the fact that along with Jews the Nazis included Gypsies, homosexuals, those intellectually challenged, the Jehovah's Witnesses (at the direct request of the Pope I suspect) and others.
ReplyDelete