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True Ott sounded like a reasonable man until he repeated the myth so familiar to listeners of Paul Josef Goebbels' radio broadcasts (with due gratitude to Henry Ford) that the Bolsheviks were creatures of a "global Jewish conspiracy" (last 9 minutes). The poster linked here shows the faces and bios of the Bolshevik Central Committee in 1917 with the cause of their deaths. The great majority were non-Jewish Slavs, as should be obvious from their names. And most of them were eventually shot or otherwise assassinated on orders of Josef Stalin, the gravedigger of the Bolshevik Revolution. http://www.marxists.org/history/ussr/events/terror/cc-1917.jpg
ReplyDeleteThe author of The Hidden History of Zionism, Ralph Schoenman, made this important related point recently in an interview with Iran Review: "The dirty secret of Zionism is that it is the Jewish victims of the Holocaust whom Zionism first betrayed and then deployed as 'moral cover' for its crimes against the people of Palestine. ... In this sense, the great Holocaust deniers are the Zionists themselves. ... Most importantly, Holocaust 'denial' provides cover for Zionism by concealing the class history and politics of the [anti-revolutionist -Bill] Zionist movement and its own consequent holocaust against the Palestinian people." http://www.iranreview.org/content/Documents/The-U-S-Government-and-the-Continued-Policy-of-Denigrating-Muslims-2.htm
Let's say that kind of evidence is valid, Atlanta Bill. Why don't you apply the same kind of logic to the claim you have often made that Nazis run Israel and the US?
ReplyDeleteI'll offer my suggestion why you don't. In both cases your intention is to shift blame away from Jews and onto non-Jews.
My intention is to shift the focus off "race" and onto class. One of my beefs with Dave Emory is that he underplays the connections between what Ralph Schoenman terms the "Jewish haute-bourgeoisie" and the Third Reich, while focusing too much on the Arab connections.
ReplyDeleteI'd refer you to The Communist Manifesto for this term "haute-bourgeoisie" and have set the following link to where it speaks of the "bourgeoisie" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EMqMgx03iM&feature=related&feature=player_detailpage#t=197s The translator uses the term 'chartered burgesses' to render the 'Pfahlbürger' of the German original. In our standard, received American history, our attention has been directed away from this class of men who sat in each colony's "House of Burgesses". Ralph's 'haute-bourgeoisie' (the hyphen is probably a typo) translates quite easily into "the big (literally 'high') burgesses" and makes the distinction between the ruling burgesses and the small burgesses, or in French "petite bourgeoisie". English-speaking Marxists have been negligent in failing to reclaim the native form of the term.
Ralph Schoenman is rare in having turned the spotlight on this ruling burgess class of world Jewry. If we can blame the world's Germans for Hitler (and I'm half-German), then we can also blame the world's Jews for the Likud and the big Jewish bankers. To speak of a "world Germanic conspiracy" would be as idiotic as to speak of a "world Jewish conspiracy".
freepalestine72 would like the focus to remain on the Jews. Would it be accurate to describe Schoenman as a Stalinist?
ReplyDeleteWhat an elaborate evasion of a simple question.
ReplyDeleteLet's say that kind of evidence is valid, Atlanta Bill. Why don't you apply the same kind of logic to the claim you have often made that Nazis run Israel and the US?
How is the double standard explained by a concern with class issues when my question concerns only standards of evidence?
Ted, Ralph Schoenman has told me in correspondence that he and his partner Mya Shone are Trotskyists (i.e. anti-Stalinists). They are also among the strongest advocates I know for Palestinian rights. The Palestinian People constitute a nation and, as such, are entitled to the full rights of nations, including their own state and return of the land stolen from them. Full right of return for Palestinian exiles!
ReplyDeleteFree Palestine 72, ALL questions must concern themselves with the evidence. I think I answered your question as to whether I would blame Jews, and I clarified the issue by telling you WHICH Jews. Class is central. Making politics revolve around "race" or ethnicity is a classic diversion, used to great effect by Nazis and Jabotinskyite Zionists.
I said that Dave Emory underplays the Jewish connections, but here is a link to where he does focus on notable Jews with Nazi connections, including Meyer Lansky (with archived audio): http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/ftr-690-update-on-the-meltdown-part-5-who-and-what-was-roland-arnall/ And he doesn't spare Democrats, either (here exposing "Nancy Pelosi, Bormann Democrat"): http://emory.kfjc.org/archive/ftr/600_699/f-673.mp3 I don't know whether it's a personal proclivity, but I like listening to Dave Emory (although it took me some time to get used to his repetitive style and I've never shared his faith in Obama).
One more point... If the Palestinian struggle can isolate and discredit the racist elements within the struggle (and blaming Jews as such is racist by definition), it can go a long way toward isolating the fascist element within the current Israeli leadership and among the original founders of the Zionist state. I would allege that there is ample evidence to show that there are and have been Nazi-linked elements both inside and outside the State of Israel whose co-ordinated strategy is both anti-Arab and anti-Jewish (traditionally referred to in Europe and the West as 'antisemitic'). I think Dave Emory has given adequate evidence to substantiate this; his contention is that Western support for Israel masks a deep hatred for Jews and a design to do them ill once their usefulness has been exhausted.
ReplyDeleteNo, the question still has not been answered. If your refutation of Ott is sound then you ought to be persuaded by a similar head count of US and Israeli leaders that Nazis did not take over their governments and do not run them still today.
ReplyDeleteThe aim of all Schoenman’s squid ink is to persuade us that a problem exists with a very small fraction of Jewry and a larger number of their ‘gentile’ (his word) supporters, and that for the most part Jews are victims - of the Nazis, of the extreme Zionists, of history, of antisemitism. Poor, poor Jews, and yes, poor Palestinians. You're pushing the same schtick, Atlanta Bill.
ReplyDeleteIf your intention, Atlanta Bill, really is to shift the focus off ‘race’ and onto class then how come you endorse Lenin’s as the good and true Marxism even though he expressly declared certain ethnic groups as enemies and others – or one, Jews – as specially protected citizens? How come you didn’t talk about the way the prison industry is enslaving poor Americans of all races but chose to speak up only for its Black victims in so doing racializing a class issue (in the Fetzer/Brooks thread)? How come you used so many anti-White slurs in that thread (cracker, white boy, etc.)? How come you barracked Dr Fetzer for merely appearing on the show of a White civil rights advocate (Mike Harris) but didn’t complain when Dr Fetzer positively endorsed the ideas of a Black civil rights advocate.
ReplyDeleteIt's obvious to me that 'Marxism' for you is a cover for ethnic aggression, just as it was for Lenin, Trotsky, Zinoviev and other racist, Jewish mass murderers.
The denial of exclusive Jewish right to organize Russian Jews was a decision voted by the Bolshevik party, which was an episode well known to honest students of Russian history...
Delete"In connection with the Party Rules, the congress had to deal with the question of the Bund. The Bund laid claim to a special position within the Party. It demanded to be recognized as the sole representative of the Jewish workers in Russia. To comply with this demand would have meant to divide the workers in the Party organizations according to nationality, and to renounce common territorial class organizations of the workers. The congress rejected the system of organization on national lines proposed by the Bund. Thereupon the Bundists quit the congress." http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1939/x01/ch02.htm
"Lenin never did any such thing (expressly declared certain ethnic groups as enemies and others – or one, Jews – as specially protected citizens)"
DeleteThis is not true. Anti-semitism was made illegal in the USSR, punishable by death. Whereas we can thank yalfnsm in the Mike Harris thread for pointing us to the http://marxwords.blogspot.com collection of quotes:
"I am confident that the suppression of the Kazan Czechs and White Guards, and likewise of the bloodsucking kulaks who support them, will be a model of mercilessness." - V. I. Lenin (George Leggett, The Cheka: Lenin’s Political Police [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1981], p119)
Will you deny that ‘Kazan Czechs’ is an ethnic designation? Is not a call for the ‘merciless suppression’ of a specific ethnic group a declaration that they are an enemy?
The ‘revolution’ was ever thus:
Delete"All the other large and small nationalities and peoples are destined to perish before long in the revolutionary world storm… these residual fragments of peoples always become fanatical standard-bearers of counter-revolution and remain so until their complete extirpation or loss of their national character… [A general war will] wipe out all these petty hidebound nations, down to their very names. The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward."
"… only by the most determined use of terror against these Slav peoples can we [Germans], jointly with the Poles and Magyars, safeguard the revolution…"
both - Friedrich Engels
Entire specific ethnies characterised negatively, targeted for cultural genocide and revolutionary war!
“If, for instance, among us the mathematical axioms seem self-evident to every eight-year-old child, and in no need of proof from experience, this is solely the result of "accumulated inheritance." It would be difficult to teach them by a proof to a bushman or Australian negro".
“The plentiful meat and milk diet among the Aryans and the Semites, and particularly the beneficial effects of these foods on the development of children, may, perhaps, explain the superior development of these two races."
– both Engels again, on race differences in intelligence
"In January 1849, months before he migrated to London, Karl Marx published an article by Friedrich Engels in Die Neue Rheinische Zeitung announcing that in Central Europe only Germans, Hungarians and Poles counted as bearers of progress. The rest must go. "The chief mission of all other races and peoples, large and small, is to perish in the revolutionary holocaust."
- George Watson on Marx. Once again we see the singling out of certain nations for protection and support, where other nations because of some allegedly generalized character are slated for genocide.
Capital, vol. 3, chapter 47: "The possibility is here presented for definite economic development taking place, depending, of course, upon favourable circumstances, inborn racial characteristics, etc."
– Marx again claiming that only some nations are made of the right stuff …
"Society is undergoing a silent revolution, which must be submitted to, and which takes no more notice of the human existences it breaks down than an earthquake regards the houses it subverts. The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way.”
– Marx again, this time saying certain lesser races must ‘give way’ to the superior races and to history.”
I find it amusing that you still cite that clown Emory after someone posted a link to an article where Emory, who pretends to believe that Nazis run the world, is quoted bitching about how the Jews haven't used their control of the media to boost his career even though he's done everything possible to push their anti-nazi/pro-Jew propaganda. Not to mention the Barbara Honegger/Nazi assassin claim. You're as dumb and duplicitous as he is, Atlanta Bill.
ReplyDeleteFree Palestine (for Nazi takeover), the other comments of yours are not worth replying to, as they pretty much expose you as a witch-hunting racist. Lenin was only 1/4 Jewish on his mother's side, by the way; the other 1/4 there was German; his father was Mongolian and Slavic (Ulyanov), but what difference would any of that make if one's not a racist.
ReplyDeleteThat's a question you should ask your guru for it mattered to him:
DeletePeter Myers has collected some original source material on the national identity and attitudes to different races of Lenin and Trotsky, including an impeccable source, Lenin's sister:
http://mailstar.net/lenin-trotsky.html, quoting:
In Volkogonov's biography Lenin, he writes of Lenin's Jewish self-identity: Lenin's sister Anna confirmed it in a letter to Stalin.
"{p. 8} In her letter to Stalin, Anna wrote, 'It's probably no secret for you that the research on our grandfather shows that he came from a poor Jewish family ...
"{p. 9} ' ... she also asserted ... that Lenin's Jewish origins 'are further confirmation of the exceptional abilities of the Semitic tribe, [confirmation] always shared by Ilyich [Lenin] ... Ilyich always valued the Jews highly'. ... Anna's claim explains, for instance, why Lenin frequently recommended giving foreigners, especially Jews, intellectually demanding tasks, and leaving the elementary work to the 'Russian fools'..
"But a little over a year later, Anna approached Stalin again, asserting that 'in the Lenin Institute, as well as in the Institute of the Brain ... they have long recognized the great gifts of this nation and the extremely beneficial effects of its blood on the progeny of mixed marriages. Ilyich himself rated their revolutionary qualities highly, contrasting it with the more sluggish and unstable character of the Russians. He often pointed out that the great [attributes of] organization and the strength of the revolutionary bodies in the south and west [of Russia] arose precisely from the fact that 50 per cent of their members were of that nationality.' But Stalin, the Russified Georgian, could not allow it to be known that Lenin had Jewish roots, and his strict prohibition remained firmly in place."
"{p.xxxvii} He {Lenin} went on: 'Hand out the work to Russian idiots: send the cuttings here, but not occasional issues (as these idiots have been doing until now).'
"{p. 112} He {Lenin} might have been thinking of Parvus (or perhaps himself?) when he said to Gorky: 'the clever Russian is almost always a Jew or has Jewish blood in him.'"
The sections at that page on Trotsky's friendly and tolerant attitude to Jewish identity and ethnonationalism, in stark contrast to his attitude to other nationalisms which he sought to see eradicated are very illuminating.
Deletehttp://mailstar.net/lenin-trotsky.html
The globalists would love us to believe that they can cause hurricanes, earthquakes and other natural disasters, and every time one happens we get "leaks" trying to convince us that the gobalists and not nature were to blame. Bull. They are acts of nature, the maniacs who run this planet do not have this much power, even though they are clearly trying to make us believe that they do so that we are in even greater fear of them.
ReplyDeleteMr. Fetzer, you are either extremely gullible, or like Alex Jones obviously is, you are working for the bad guys.
How can anyone believe such obvious lies, "leaks" suggesting that storms like Sandy and even Katrina were man-made?? Ya right!! Give your head a shake, Jim. These are acts of nature.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFree Palestine, your source references a letter to Stalin! http://mailstar.net/lenin-trotsky.html (from Stalin's personal papers liberated by the German Wehrmacht somewhere, no doubt) Stalin moved whole populations out of ethnic areas of Russia. I love it how the Goebbelsian disinformation network uses Stalinist sources to discredit real Bolsheviks in support of a "world Jewish conspiracy" theory. Henry Makow does this with Russian Left Oppositionist and Jewish friend of Totsky Christian Rakovsky, using the testimony of Rakovsky's Stalinist jailor as proof that Rakovsky was working for Jewish bankers.
ReplyDelete"Banker and boss hate the Red Soviet star.
The bosses would build a new throne for the Czar.
Then from the steppes to the dark British sea
Trotsky's Red Army brings victory!"
--first stanza of the song "Trotsky's Red Army"
I deleted the comment above because of a typo, but my correction disappeared. Strange. Here's what I had... Free Palestine's source, as he noted above, quotes alleged letters between Trotsky's sister and Josef Stalin(!). How is one to accept evidence from the collected correspondence of Trotsky's arch-enemy, if such letters ever existed? Perhaps they were discovered by the German Wehrmacht while on their humanitarian and truth-seeking mission in Russia.
ReplyDeleteThe letters, as stated quite clearly in my comment and at the link, were between Lenin’s sister and Stalin. They came from declassified KGB files and were exhibited at the Moscow State Historical Museum last year. I guess the omnipotent Nazis control the Commies and the KGB, too! I’m joking of course but this buffoon may turn round and agree.
DeleteThese source of the letters and the story of their public exposure are facts easily googled but Atlanta Bill does not seem overly interested in facts or truth.
He professes a knowledge of Lenin, claims to know absolutely that Lenin was never racist, yet Lenin’s habit of making positive reference to Jews especially in comparison with ‘Russian idiots’ is quite well-attested to in the literature on the major personalities of the Soviet Union. In addition to the quotes posted already from Lenin’s own sister and Dmitri Volkogonov in his 1994 biography LENIN:
“Lenin's non-Russian ethnic antecedents — Mongol, Jewish, Swedish and
German — may partly explain his often expressed contempt for Russia and the
Russians ... He often used the phrase ‘Russian idiots.’” ~ Orlando Figes, A PEOPLE’S TRAGEDY (1997)
“This helps explain Lenin’s contempt for old Russia - ‘Russian idiots’ was a favourite curse.” ~ Simon Sebag Montefiore, YOUNG STALIN (2010)
“on 16 October 1919 Lenin wrote to S. Yelyava … [use Germans, Italians and Frenchmen for the purpose] ‘As for the Russian idiots’ …” ~ Volkogonov, AUTOPSY FOR AN EMPIRE (1999)
Even when I further quote Lenin himself calling for the merciless suppression of a specific ethnic group Atlanta Bill ignores all these facts and accuses me of being the racist! Hey, I’m just here advocating the end of double standards and Marxist genocide propaganda that seem to me blatantly racist. All of the double standards, hatred, contempt, hostility and bellicosity directed at ethnic groups or races in this thread has come from Atlanta Bill and his Marxist gurus. I haven’t expressed any.
The reliance by the Goebbelsian network on Stalinist sources is laughable. Henry Makow tells us that Trotsky's friend and fellow Left Oppositionist Christian Rakovsky admitted to his jailor while in one of Stalin's prisons (later to escape) that he was an agent of the "world Jewish banking conspiracy" - this on the testimony of Stalin's jailor. Keep that word 'banking' in mind as you read the first stanza of the Revolutionary song "Trotsky's Red Army":
ReplyDelete"Banker and boss hate the red Soviet star.
The bosses would build a new throne for the Czar.
Then from the steppes to the dark British Sea,
Trotsky's Red Army brings victory."
Sources actually cited: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky. References or influence from Goebbels: none.
DeleteWhy on earth would Henry Makow put out stuff about Jewish bankers that's easily discredited - by the swill about the Illuminati, masons and satanism, long before anyone examines the details?
Why, oh, why? Why?
freepalestine72 asked “How is the double standard explained by a concern with class issues when my question concerns only standards of evidence?”
ReplyDeleteJust so. If we take atlantabill’s reply as honest and straightforward it makes sense only as a declaration that he is prepared to lie about race when he thinks it would further his class struggle, he is saying:
“I don’t care, frankly, whether German National Socialists do not really control the U.S. and Israel, it helps my economic argument if others believe they do. I don’t care, frankly, whether Jews really were in control of the Soviet Union, it helps my economic arguments if others believe they were not.”
But how does this help his economic argument in any way? It does not appear to bear any relation to his professed economic concerns nor does it ‘shift the focus off race’. Rather, as freepalestine72 says, it simply shifts the focus from one race to another.
“the other comments of yours are not worth replying to, as they pretty much expose you as a witch-hunting racist”
I am without an ideological dog in the fight. I’m neither Marxist or Hitlerite, nor Russian, German or Jew. I read this thread with fresh eyes and an open mind. The quotes from Marx, Engels and Lenin, and your own comments and style of argumentation were quite disgusting. The ‘witch hunting racist’ label better suits you and yours, atlantabill. In contrast there is not even the hint of racism in freepalestine72’s comments.
It's pretty clear that atlantabill is some type of disinfo agent:
ReplyDeletethis is a useful article explaining how to spot these guys:
http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
If anybody (including atlantabill) has a more concise checklist, could you please post it? Thanks in advance.
Consturctor, do you believe that people who buy into the theory that hurricanes like Katrina and storms like Sandy are man-made are themselves disinfo agents? Deluded and gullible? Or correct in their views?
ReplyDeleteSee also:
ReplyDeletehttp://sincedutch.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/11142012-2hour-interview-deep-earth-bunker-radio-weather-modification-hurricane-sandy-frankenstorm/
and the earlier
http://sincedutch.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/geoengineeringfrankenstorm-hurricane-sandy-and-the-air-force-weather-weapon-system-part1/
Personally I do not believe any of the weather modification theories. Maybe on a small scale they can do things, but I do not believe they can cause major storms. I think this is lies, disinfo, "leaks", all designed to make us fear the globalists. These maniacs are going off, and they know it, so they are trying everything they can now. But they will fail. Do not buy into the lies of Alex Jones and others who exaggerate the power of these people.
ReplyDeleteStooy44, I am on the fence on that topic. I agree with your comment above that we (the non-elite) have to be very careful not to disempower ourselves by letting the elite convince us that they have a lot more power than they actually do have. But then again, we don't want to delude ourselves into thinking they have less power than they do have. It's a real Psy-Op knife-edge. Whether they can cause large storms, I wouldn't be surprised but I am not convinced either way...in large part because I haven't spent any time going through the evidence for / against.
ReplyDeleteAgreed Constructor. But any "evidence" could well be fabricated. If the globalists had half the power that people like Alex Jones say they do, they would have completely taken over the planet a long time ago. I hope Mr. Fetzer keeps a cool head and understands this. It is dangerous to fall for all so-called "leaks", "evidence" and so forth.
ReplyDeleteWe also hear a lot of talk about the depopulation agenda of the globalists, and that it goes back almost 100 years. Really? Last time I looked the planet passed 7 billion, and the population has been increasing exponentially for a very long time.
They lied and told us they put a man on the moon. They DO NOT even have this much power in reality.
At Roswell what happened is obvious. They faked an alien crash and then pretended to cover it up as if it really happened.
We could go on and on about their lies, designed to make themselves look stronger than they really are.
Another interesting source, dated, but with lots of bibliography and footnote support, is Crichton's "book State of Fear". Was Crichton an psy- ops operative for someone? Or a scientist?
ReplyDeleteYou can be both a psy-ops operative and a scientist...all rolled into one corrupt unit. Look at the greasy scientists that the oil and gas sector digs up to speak against global warming.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify: "Look at the greasy scientists that the oil and gas sector digs up to assert that human burning of fossil fuels is not significantly contributing to global warming."
ReplyDeleteThat problem is overstated, Constructor, and is more a function of Them controlling both sides of the debate. Most of the funding for the climate change agenda comes from people who control Big Oil, sometimes through their Big Oil operations themselves, at other times through their control of banking, government, heavy industry etc. The really vocal and scientifically rigorous climate change sceptics - Tim Ball, Richard Lindzen, Christopher Monckton and so on receive nothing from BP, Shell and the like.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand every clown who wants to examine the effect of global warming on (insert object) gets funding for his study from major corporations and foundations never more than one degree of separation removed from the people who control Big Oil, if not those Oil corps themselves.
And there is evidence that both 'fossil fuels' and 'global warming' are myths promoted to enrich these interests. I mean, what global warming? There hasn't been any for years. And during the last period of warming, which coincided with a cycle of extreme solar activity, both Mercury and Venus experienced warming too, quite predictably. A local novel explanation for warming on earth was unnecessary and now that both extreme solar activity and warming on Earth, Mercury and Venus have ceased the link looks even more compelling, and the CO2 explanation even less so.
If oil and coal are fossil fuels than how and why do drained oil wells spontaneously refill? How and why do hundreds of coal seams around the world burn constantly for centuries at a time. Just how many dang dinosaurs piled themselves into that hole in the first place?
Nice try Carl,
ReplyDeleteThe greenhouse effect is the result of a pretty simple cause and effect: more C02 in the atmosphere results in higher temperatures at the earth's surface. Another simple cause and effect is that burning a bunch of carbon-based fuels (call them fossil fuels if you believe they came from fossils[nice red hearing you introduced above]) causes a bunch of C02 to be released into the atmosphere. Since the industrial revolution we've released absurd amounts into the atmosphere. These amounts, and their coincidence with increasing global temperatures, can't just be swept under the carpet for the sake of contrarian thinking.
Carl...the trick in life is not to be a contrarian; being a contrarian is easy, anybody can just say something is not true based on some cherry-picked 'facts'. The trick is to be an independent thinker, which means accepting the status quo when it supported by overwhelming evidence, which global warming is.
What global warming? That trend finished nearly twenty years ago and could not have done so if industrial development was the single cause.
ReplyDeleteWhat proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere is caused by industrial development? Clue: it's minsicule.
What caused previous changes in temperature before industrialization? And why should we not suppose they were responsible for recent changes?
You called them fossil fuels, I responded by querying that claim.
If global warming were supported by overwhelming evidence, why have former 'global warming' stopped talking about it? Now, since the most recent cycle of global warming has clearly ended - just as the sun's cycle of mass activity ended, coincidentally - they talk about 'climate change' and even more recently, 'climate disruption'.
Are you aware that over 1000 climate scientists have signed a declaration of skepticism over the CO2/climate change hysteria. This dwarfs the number of climate scientists responsible for promoting the CO2/climate change hysteria where most of the people associated with the IPCC and other official committees are computer modellers, sociologists, archaeologists, ecologists and even trash collectors and train drivers.
#why have former 'global warming' PROPONENTS stopped talking about it?
ReplyDeleteCarl, I'm willing to check out your claims honestly. Can you please forward me a couple of key links / sources that sum up your above assertions.
ReplyDeleteCarl, you will of course have to counter this. It's recent (July 2012) and decent scientific support for human-caused global climate change.
ReplyDeleteClimate change study forces skeptical scientists to change minds. Earth's land shown to have warmed by 1.5C over past 250 years, with humans being almost entirely responsible (2012 Guardian Article)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jul/29/climate-change-sceptics-change-mind
Prof Richard Muller, a physicist and climate change skeptic who founded the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature (Best) project, said he was surprised by the findings. "We were not expecting this, but as scientists, it is our duty to let the evidence change our minds." He added that he now considers himself a "converted skeptic" and his views had undergone a "total turnaround" in a short space of time.
"Our results show that the average temperature of the Earth's land has risen by 2.5F over the past 250 years, including an increase of 1.5 degrees over the most recent 50 years. Moreover, it appears likely that essentially all of this increase results from the human emission of greenhouse gases," Muller wrote in an opinion piece for the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-a-climate-change-skeptic.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all&
Berkley Earth Results Summary
http://berkeleyearth.org/results-summary/
Berkley Earth Land Temperature Anomaly Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHZzACcYJRo
A New Estimate of the Average Earth Surface Land Temperature Spanning 1753 to 2011 (The Berkeley Earth team commonly refers to this as the “Results” paper)
http://berkeleyearth.org/pdf/results-paper-july-8.pdf
This a useful word...found in a pretty good thread on global warming.
ReplyDeletehttp://science.slashdot.org/story/12/11/20/2352255/climate-contrarians-seek-leadership-of-house-science-committee
skep-tic-tard /`skeptiktard/ Noun: A person inclined to question or doubt all accepted opinions, regardless of any and all facts. Sees a changing of the mind when presented with good solid evidence as a moral failing.
The same thing as a contrarian...much better to be an independent thinker.
The Muller/NYT/Guardian case provides a very good example of the method of the fraudsters.
ReplyDeleteHere's the truth about Muller, links at source blog ( http://www.populartechnology.net/2012/06/truth-about-richard-muller.html ) - and the case also provides an example of a fossil fuel billionaire funding research by a known global warming alarmist that was used to promote AGW hysteria dishonestly:
"I was never a skeptic" - Richard Muller, 2011
Richard Muller has never been a skeptic, at best he had a moment of intellectual honesty towards skeptics when he acknowledged Steve McIntyre's debunking of Mann's Hockey Stick, only to later dismiss this as irrelevant to the global warming debate, "This result should not affect any of our thinking on global warming". Hardly surprising, as Muller considers the carbon dioxide produced from burning fossil fuels to be, "the greatest pollutant in human history" and likely to have, "severe and detrimental effects on global climate". The future outlook for global warming according to Muller is that, "it’s going to get much, much worse" and thus advocates that the United States immediately pay China and India hundreds of billions of dollars to cut back their carbon emissions or, "it'll be too late". No wonder he endorsed "The Earth is the Great Ship Titanic", Steven Chu as "perfect" for U.S. Energy Secretary and Al Gore's hypocritical alarmism,
"If Al Gore reaches more people and convinces the world that global warming is real, even if he does it through exaggeration and distortion - which he does, but he’s very effective at it - then let him fly any plane he wants." - Richard Muller, 2008
"There is a consensus that global warming is real. ...it’s going to get much, much worse." - Richard Muller, 2008
"Let me be clear. My own reading of the literature and study of paleoclimate suggests strongly that carbon dioxide from burning of fossil fuels will prove to be the greatest pollutant of human history. It is likely to have severe and detrimental effects on global climate." - Richard Muller, 2003
References:
Medieval Global Warming (MIT Technology Review, December 17, 2003)
Global Warming Bombshell (MIT Technology Review, October 15, 2004)
Author and physicist Richard A. Muller chats with Grist about getting science back in the White House (Grist, October 7, 2008)
Physics the Next President Needs to Know (Wired, November 2, 2008)
Steven Chu named U.S. Energy Secretary (KGO-TV, December 15, 2008)
Physics for Future Presidents: The Science Behind the Headlines (Richard Muller, 2009)
‘In the Great Ship Titanic’ (The Daily Beast, April 10, 2009)
Richard Muller, Climate Researcher, Navigates The Volatile Line Between Science And Skepticism (The Huffington Post, November 3, 2011)
--- do you see how they lie, Constructor?
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/10426/Climate-Depot-Round-Up-on-Richard-Muller-Scientists-trashing-Mullers-workMuller-stands-accused-of-being-front-man-for-geoengineering-org--Muller-Responds-to-Climate-Depot
ReplyDeletefurther links at link above
[Climate Depot, serving the public interest, continues it's coverage of Richard Muller of Berkeley's BEST temperature project]
Scientists Trashing Muller's work: Peter Thorne of NCDC: 'The Berkeley team had been 'seriously compromised' by publicizing its work before publishing any vetted papers'
Muller calculating his scientific claims?! 'He basically destroys the reputation & research of most of [AGW's] most notable super stars & yet he believes the science they promote is sound -- amazing!' ramuller@lbl.gov Muller's alleged 'skeptical' climate quotes manufactured?! 'On one hand he says that virtually all the science flowing from IPCC and various proponent organizations is shoddy, yet he believes that the science that underpins it which is product of those same individuals and organizations is accurate'
Richard Muller Stands Accused: 'He is the front man for a geoengineering organization...which claims theirs is the only means of controlling the earth's temperature': 'So they employ Dr. Muller to rubbish all the carbon control proposals -- which he ably does'
Background on Muller's BEST project: 'Who is Novim and why are they messing with the Earth's Temperature update?' -- Muller's Berkley Earth Surface Group is part of the Novim Group...they are very much into Geo-Engineering: 'Novim's Exec Dir. Ditmore: 'We're running out of time' -- 'The Berkley Earth Surface Group is not without an agenda'
Muller's scientific work failing the grade?: 'Even [warmist Kevin] Trenberth isn't too sure about it': Trenberth is 'highly skeptical of the hype and claims' surrounding Muller's effort and claims the team does 'not the expertise required in certain areas, and purely statistical approaches are naive'
Scientist Ridicules the Muller Con: 'I forecast Muller will continue to play role of neutral observer, & will continue to shock us with revelations that climate change is 'worse than he expected'
Richard Muller Demonstrates That UHI (Urban Heat Island) Contaminates The Temperature Record: 'Satellite data is measured at 14,000 feet, and would exaggerate the warming if it was due to 'global warming.' However, we see the exact opposite. The only plausible explanation is that the surface record is biased by UHI effects, because thermometers are located where humans live, build roads, remove snow, heat their homes, build buildings, etc.'
Hiding The Decline In Illinois: Berkeley's Muller says the surface temperature record is golden but 'USHCN has created a rise by subtracting from older temps and adding to newer temps'
Climatologist Pielke Sr.: 'Is There A Sampling Bias In The BEST Analysis Reported By Richard Muller?': Muller's 'sampling is still biased if a preponderance of his data sources comes from a subset of actual landscape types. The sampling will necessarily be skewed towards those sites...unresolved issues, including a likely systematic warm bias, remains in the analysis of long term surface temperature trends'
Muller claims 'that existing work by NOAA, NASSA & Had CRU is excellent. So why set up a new study to compete with them?' - 'Left unsaid in all this is the group behind BEST, Novim' ramuller@lbl.gov Revealing quote from warmist at heart Muller: 'I you believe we can get a favor from God by praying, I suggest you pray that cloud cover will kick in because if my evaluation is right when I show you what the problem is and if the global warming models are right, and I think they are very likely right, then we are going to have global warming'
More background on Richard Muller's BEST project (from same link posted above):
ReplyDeleteRichard Muller's Temperature Project Aptly Termed The 'Berkeley Scam' -- ramuller@lbl.gov -- Muller's team 'are completely unbiased and open minded, though they have already determined (ahead of their neutral study) that global warming is the most serious problem in the world'
Climatologist Roger Pielke Sr. Slams Richard Muller's 'contradictory statements' -- ramuller@lbl.gov -- 'All Muller's study has accomplished so far is to confirm that NCDC, GISS and CRU honestly used the raw observed data as the starting point for their analyses. This is not a surprising result...The uncertainties and systematic biases remain unexplored so far by Richard Muller...Muller and his colleagues have not yet examined these concerns, yet chose to report on his very preliminary results at a House Hearing'
He can't get basic temperature data correct?! 'Muller's graph appears to be incorrect' -- Richard Muller Claims 1C Warming Since 1977 -- 'But HadCRUT shows about half of that'
From BEST To WORST In D.C. Minute: Berkeley Scientist's Promise of Transparency Becomes Vaporware
Muller Exposed: 'I was disheartened by the testimony of Richard Muller...he has totally destroyed any credibility he might have had with me' -- ramuller@lbl.gov -- Muller is 'a man driven by a very serious agenda, a man who doesn't check his work and who pays insufficient attention to facts in testimony'
'GOP asked Richard Muller the wrong questions. Warming is miniscule, and the little warming we have seen isn't primarily due to CO2'
What Richard Muller Isn't Saying: 'Most of the warming in his graph occurred after PDO shift in 1977' -- 'The rate of warming is below low end of projections. In other words, a don't care'
Meteorologist D'Aleo: Berkeley's Muller goes to Washington and another misleading statement by NOAA CCSP author Thorne
Prof. Richard A. Muller's testimony: 'According to IPCC report (2007), the human component became apparent only after 1957, and it amounts to 'most' of the 0.7 degree rise since then' -- 'I believe that some of the most worrisome (temperature) biases are less of a problem than I had previously thought'
Well Carl, we will just have to agree to disagree.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that, despite the text you have posted above that, on balance, there is valid scientific support and scientific consensus on human-caused climate change.
I also believe we can't deny that the financial/power agenda for debunking human-caused climate change is by far the strongest with the oil and gas sector. Humanity/the planet DOES have a lot to lose by NOT taking human-caused climate change seriously. Those who have by FAR the most to gain by seeding doubt with the public are oil and gas companies.
Seeding of doubt on this topic is more tied to a political/monetary agenda than with any valid scientific observations.
Climate of Doubt Strategy #1: Deny the Consensus
http://www.shapingtomorrowsworld.org/climate-of-doubt-strategy-1-deny-consensus.html
Human-caused global warming is NOT in scientific doubt. This is clear when one understands and acknowledges the very basic connection between atmospheric CO2, global temperature, and immense amounts of human burning of carbon-based fuels in recent decades. For serious scientists, the debate is essentially over and legitimate consensus has been reached.
In closing, such debate is good, as long it is rooted in intellectual honesty and greater good thinking...the cornerstones of a meaningful existence.
True Ott aka Alma C. Ott is a racist fraud and CounterIntelligence Operative. He is also a plagiarist.
ReplyDeleteRead http://www.TrueOtt.com