Friday, October 12, 2012
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I can hardly believe I am confronting Dr. Fetzer (who has hitherto been an icon and a hero beyond reproach and/or criticism) but as a scholar, Professor of logic and expert critical thinker is it not entirely possible/plausible that news items such as the 1.5 Bn rounds of ammo could be a colossal fabrication and is just being dangled out there to see who will bite and discredit themselves? I don't take any pleasure in saying this but the recent podcasts have been much more in the camp of the bullhorn bully from Austin rather than the calm, measured, and careful commentaries that are much more typical of the eminent professor?
ReplyDeleteBearing in mind we are dealing with psychopaths who are not only capable of mass murder but also derive great pleasure in rubbing our noses in the vast pile of crap they have dumped on us I find it an entirely feasible possibility
Respectfully, Eamonn
I don't see any reason to doubt that they purchased the 1.5 billion rounds, Eamonn. What I DO doubt is that they will dare put the first hollow-point rounds into a group of innocent, disgruntled citizens, because at that point they'd better have a few hundred thousand highly programmed goons who are ready to die loyalty for people they probably don't respect, anyway. There is every reason to believe that at that point most of the military, all the veterans, and millions of other gun-owners will have their hides.
ReplyDeleteWhat bothers me is that Dr Fetzer would do an interview with such an obvious racist and unregenerate McCarthyite as Mike Harris, who serves to deflect our wrath away from his masters by pitting one oppressed group against another. Even a veteran follower of Alex Jones as I am, who has friends who are card-carrying John Birchers, could hardly believe that Jim didn't do more to challenge the "historical facts" that came right out of J Edgar Hoover's A Study of Communism and his Masters of Deceit.
Don't you guys on the right realize that Marx's critique of capitalism and his studies of the mechanics of revolution are just the kind of intellectual weapon the ruling class least wants the workers, farmers, and other downtrodden to get their hands on? Do you really buy into the rabbit hole that Paul Josef Goebbels and Henry Ford inter alia were so vociferous to propagate: that the entire historical span of the European workers' movement was just a ploy by rich Jews to hoodwink us into giving up our paradise under the thumbs of the bankers and industrialists and every little martinet that beats his chest over his sacrifices to the "free market" and his practical genius to "create jobs"? Do some research into primary sources, for God's sake! The dedicated plebeians at marxists.com have made it easy for you. The bankers fund and direct a movement sworn to dethrone them??? What sense does that make?
Great comment, well put.
DeleteThe Righties have fallen for fascist propaganda. When capital brought forth fascism after WW1 to try to halt the spread of socialism, they knew they couldn't win anybody over with a pro-capitalist political party, the workers wouldn't fall for anything so obvious, so they depicted fascism as anti-plutocratic. Mussolini had ben [?] a commie. Hitler and his German Army buddies took over a party called the German Workers' Party and just added the "National Socialist" to the title. This was the greatest abuse of the word socialist ever. Anyway, the idea was to associate the predatory aspects of capitalism with finance capital [as opposed to industrial capital] and to insist it was Jewish. Good Gentile capitalists were producing useful products and services and jobs, and the nasty Jewish capitalists were speculators and predators. At least this was the line offered by the major theoreticians of the Nazi Party--Rosenberg, Goebbels etc.
This served 2 purposes: The Zionists loved the idea bvecause they wanted to drive the Jews out of Europe and into Palestine, and it allowed fascists to employ a lot of harsh anti-capitalist rhetoric which they knew would appeal to the workers. It worked so well that one Social Democrat leader, a self-described Marxist, actually endorsed the Nazi Party in 1932 saying it was a continuation of the revolution of 1918!
The word fascism isn't usable anymore as capital had to do an emergency separation ritual with the fascists governments they brought to power after the latter lost the war to the USSR. Hence the show trials in Nuremburg. But fascist ideas are still very much with us. This is possible as radical and/or labor history is taboo and as such is not taught in schools. Consequently, there are people who still believe that the problem is an evil race--very much a fascist idea--rather than the result of class antagonisms.
“What bothers me is that Dr Fetzer would do an interview with such an obvious racist and unregenerate McCarthyite as Mike Harris, who serves to deflect our wrath away from his masters by pitting one oppressed group against another.”
DeleteHere is how people that would otherwise be able to free themselves from the Empire are paralysed and made to go along with their oppression and long-term their annihilation as distinct ethnic, racial and cultural groups. It’s a form of social terrorism and atlantabill knows it: I have apprised him here before of the source for the 20th century neologism ‘racism’ – Trotsky and his followers who sought to pathologize and thought-criminalize people and populations who would resist coming under their control.
Harris wants self-determination for all peoples, even if they happen to be White (self-determination is good for non-White peoples but bad for Whites say the self-described ‘anti-racists’). He clearly has no ill will to any other groups, he just wants his own to be free of the astronomical costs in social disharmony, crime, race-based wealth transfer, race-based opportunity transfer, race-based political oppression etc., that have exploded by design since Jews took total control of America post-WWII.
If there’s a difference between Harris and the Black racial loyalist Al Sharpton (recently defended by Dr Fetzer on the Maggie Roddin show), it’s that Sharpton demands freedom for aggression in the form of special privileges at other people's expense: affirmative action and other set-asides, the right to organize in group self-interest and silence other groups who try and do the same, hyping up every rare example of White-on-Black crime but enforcing the omerta on appalling levels of Black-on-White crime especially rape, gang-rape, prison rape, murder, assault, and mob violence. On the other hand Harris seeks the freedom only to live and let live. (Which attitude, again, it was the first priority of the Trotskyists to pathologize. Followers of other parasitical agendas such as Sharpton have latched onto the strategy, recognizing the value of an attack that paralyzes the target's ability to make self/non-self distinctions.)
(Marx's critique of capitalism and his studies of the mechanics of revolution are just the kind of intellectual weapon the ruling class least wants the workers, farmers, and other downtrodden to get their hands on? - brooklynshmuely)
DeleteSure, like no-one here ever heard about the Jewish bankers bankrolling Jewish Bolshevism. Like no-one here ever noticed that Marxists in power have trod down more workers, farmers and other 'dumb goys' than any European aristocrat or monarch ever did.
(Do you really buy into the rabbit hole that Paul Josef Goebbels and Henry Ford inter alia were so vociferous to propagate: that the entire historical span of the European workers' movement was just a ploy by rich Jews - brooklynshmuely)
Strawman designed to put examination of Jewish culpability and consideration of certain solutions both beyond the pale. Ford and the regime that Goebbels was part of found a way to uplift workers without recourse to Marxism - which never uplifted anyone but Jews and other psychopaths anyway.
(Do some research into primary sources, for God's sake! - brooklynshmuely)
I'll echo that. Look into what good Marxists have written and said:
"… the very cannibalism of the counterrevolution will convince the nations that there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror."
- Karl Marx
("The Victory of the Counter-Revolution in Vienna," Neue Rheinische Zeitung, November 7, 1848)
"All the other large and small nationalities and peoples are destined to perish before long in the revolutionary world storm… these residual fragments of peoples always become fanatical standard-bearers of counter-revolution and remain so until their complete extirpation or loss of their national character… [A general war will] wipe out all these petty hidebound nations, down to their very names. The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward."
- Friedrich Engels
("The Magyar Struggle," Neue Rheinische Zeitung, January 13, 1849)
"… only by the most determined use of terror against these Slav peoples can we [Germans], jointly with the Poles and Magyars, safeguard the revolution… there will be a struggle, an ‘inexorable life-and-death struggle,’ against those Slavs who betray the revolution; an annihilating fight and ruthless terror - not in the interests of Germany, but in the interests of the revolution!"
- Friedrich Engels
("Democratic Pan-Slavism, Cont.," Neue Rheinische Zeitung, February 16, 1849)
"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
- Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels
("Suppression of the Neue Rheinische Zeitung," Neue Rheinische Zeitung, May 19, 1849)
"Psychologically, this talk of feeding the starving is nothing but an expression of the saccharine-sweet sentimentality so characteristic of our intelligentsia."
- V. I. Lenin
(Robert Conquest, The Harvest of Sorrow [London: Arrow Books, 1988], p234)
"Let them shoot on the spot every tenth man guilty of idleness."
Delete- V. I. Lenin
(George Leggett, The Cheka: Lenin’s Political Police [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1981], p55)
"Surely you do not imagine that we shall be victorious without applying the most cruel revolutionary terror?"
- V. I. Lenin
(George Leggett, The Cheka: Lenin’s Political Police [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1981], p57)
"Merciless war against these kulaks! Death to them!"
- V. I. Lenin
(Dmitri Volkogonov, Lenin: Life and Legacy [London: HarperCollins, 1994], p197)
"... carry out merciless mass terror against the kulaks, priests and White Guards; unreliable elements to be locked up in a concentration camp outside the town."
- V. I. Lenin
(George Leggett, The Cheka: Lenin’s Political Police [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1981], p103)
"I am confident that the suppression of the Kazan Czechs and White Guards, and likewise of the bloodsucking kulaks who support them, will be a model of mercilessness."
- V. I. Lenin
(George Leggett, The Cheka: Lenin’s Political Police [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1981], p119)
"When we are reproached with cruelty, we wonder how people can forget the most elementary Marxism."
- V. I. Lenin
(Robert Conquest, The Human Cost of Soviet Communism [Washington: Committee on the Judiciary, US Senate, 91st Congress, 2nd Session, 1970], p10)
"Dictatorship is rule based directly on force and unrestricted by any laws. The revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat is rule won and maintained through the use of violence by the proletariat against the bourgeoisie, rule that is unrestricted by any laws."
- V. I. Lenin
(Stephan Courtois, "Conclusion," in The Black Book of Communism, ed. Stephane Courtois [Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1999], p741)
"... the very principle of labour conscription has replaced the principle of free labour as radically and irreversibly as socialization of the means of production has replaced capitalist ownership."
- Leon Trotsky
(Dmitri Volkogonov, Trotsky: The Eternal Revolutionary [London: HarperCollins, 1996], pp216-7)
"Root out the counterrevolutionaries without mercy, lock up suspicious characters in concentration camps... Shirkers will be shot, regardless of past service..."
- Leon Trotsky
(Dmitri Volkogonov, Trotsky: The Eternal Revolutionary [London: HarperCollins, 1996], p213)
"We have to run a hot iron down the spine of the Ukrainian kulaks - that will create a good working environment."
- Leon Trotsky
(Dmitri Volkogonov, Trotsky: The Eternal Revolutionary [London: HarperCollins, 1996], p183)
"As for us, we were never concerned with the Kantian-priestly and vegetarian-Quaker prattle about the ‘sacredness of human life.’"
- Leon Trotsky
(Terrorism and Communism: A Reply to Karl Kautsky [London: New Park Publications, 1975], p82)
(The bankers fund and direct a movement sworn to dethrone them??? What sense does that make? - brooklynshmuely)
Deleteshmuely's really unaware, never heard, honest to G-d, about the Schiff family bragging about pappy funding the J-Bolshevik revolution. He loves original sources but never knew, truly, that Trotsky in his autobiography talked about being financed by the London bankers.
He's been into this conspiracy theory stuff for years where this knowledge is universal but somehow Shmuely just didn't hear what everyone else heard, didn't read what everyone else read. Honest injun. He's not spinning for the tribe. No way.
“the 1.5 Bn rounds of ammo could be a colossal fabrication and is just being dangled out there to see who will bite and discredit themselves?”
ReplyDeletePossibly. But wouldn’t that also discredit the government sources of the story? If the ammunition is being covertly and illegally diverted to terrorist allies of the USG overseas such as the anti-Assad forces in Syria the benefit is twofold and perhaps worth the trouble, where the other benefit is the increased domestic polarisation of American society.
“recent podcasts have been much more in the camp of the bullhorn bully from Austin rather than the calm, measured, and careful commentaries that are much more typical of the eminent professor?”
Only insofar as both are unable really to separate themselves from old loyalties to a party and perspective that their studies should have disabused them of. Jones’s efforts whatever his goal boosts the Republican/libertarian wing of the bird of prey where Fetzer boosts the Democrat/liberal wing. Neither has a developed political philosophy that would prioritise the rights of people to secede from the Empire of Jewish financiers and the socially engineered blending out of non-Jewish peoples.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was slowly developing politically from objectively racist anti-racist to universal nationalist I always found it useful to refer back to this article on ‘objective measures of racism’: http://www.whitenationalism.com/ls/ls-08.htm , whenever I doubted the reasonableness of messages like Mike Harris’s.
ReplyDeleteAnd I was just staggered by the degree of ‘politically correct racism’ in modern American society as I saw similar programs beginning to spring up here in the UK:
http://www.whitenationalism.com/rb/index.htm
I believe that Eamonn raises some good points. It is quite possible that all of this ammunition that Mr. Fetzer talks about repeatedly does not in fact exist. The suggestion of the ammunition could well be disinformation, a designed "leak" to make us believe things that are not in fact true. This type of thing is a major concern I have with Alex Jones, and it is what convinces me that he is working for the bad guys. It is unbelievable how often Jones says, "...there own documents admit it...", yet he never questions whether or not these documents may contain lies that they hope we believe.
ReplyDeleteedited for clarity ...
ReplyDelete“the 1.5 Bn rounds of ammo could be a colossal fabrication and is just being dangled out there to see who will bite and discredit themselves?”
As in also ...
"Every one of the following kingpins of the Bush administration were also Israeli citizens: Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith (undersec of Defense), Michael Chertoff, George Tenet (real name: Cohen), Elliot Abrams (NSC), Donald Kagan, Richard Haas, Kenneth Adelman, Edward Luttwak (National security Study Group), Robert Satloff, David Frum, David Wurmser, Steve Goldsmith, and Marc Grossman. Ari Freisher, Press Secretary."
That's from an article co-authored by doctors Kollerstrom and Fetzer at VT. In response to similar claims made in another article at VT by Gordon Duff I asked,
“The claim is often made that many of these characters have dual citizenship, but I’ve never seen it backed up. Besides, what is the reason? Simply for being Jews these guys could reliably expect to find sanctuary in Israel should they be required to flee the US. No other obvious benefit obtains of dual citizenship, but there are obvious PR down-sides.”
In further comments I elaborated on what may be happening here:
“Sometimes claims are promoted within the conspindustry that do not stand up to a basic fact-check, turning intelligent and resourceful people away from the truth as a whole when they find popular movement claims lacking. The Nazis burned the Reichstag in a false-flag operation … that kind of thing. I wonder if the ‘dual citizens’ claim is another example. Perhaps I’m wrong.
“... I do not know if the dual citizen claim we all hear so often is a crafted fiction. I only know that whenever I hear it I ask for some evidence and so far haven’t received any by reply. That makes me wonder if there is no foundation to the claim – and if there is not, then why the claim is so often made? If the dual citizen claim that we hear routinely from conspindustry writers and broadcasters is bogus and without any foundation whatsoever then its ubiquity suggests it was deliberately embedded into the standard ‘alternative’ debate lore and then kept alive by constant repetition.
“It could not happen except by design that so many people in the ‘truth’ movement believe something that’s apparently without foundation. Among a community dedicated to sceptical research such claims could only thrive owing to sustained efforts of people positioned at critical nodes to circulate and popularise these myths and turn them into concrete, unchallenged ‘facts’ through forceful repetition.
“I can think of at least two benefits to disseminating this kind of false claim. The first I outlined above: a significant proportion of the more intelligent and grounded readers/listeners will check out these claims for themselves and find them lacking an evidential basis. This alienates some of the smart and principled fraction that would prove most valuable to any real truth seeking endeavour. The second benefit accrues from the narrative content and message of the lie when others do believe it. In the case of the dual citizenship claim for example, the real problem – of Jews running American policy for Jewish interests, something that happens across the board including over domestic matters – would be obscured and the problem reframed as one of unwelcome Israeli influence over specific foreign policy issues. See for example wolf’s comments [in the thread at VT] and the general anti-Zionist but anti-anti-semitic tenor of this site [Veterans Today].
endquote VT.
no takers? ...
Henry Ford paid his workers around three times the going rate and was anti-Fed and anti-war. All of which goes to show he was on the side of the American worker and was basically right about the source and nature of the Jewish threat. As for the rest we went through most of it once before at http://radiofetzer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/nick-kollerstrom-and-kevin-barrett.html
ReplyDeleteWorkers in the Third Reich enjoyed social and employment benefits far outstripping those in the allied countries whether ‘capitalist’ US and Britain or ‘communist’ Soviet Union or ‘socialist’ France: the money system was reformed and the private debt-money system replaced with a state issue of currency model - a massive transfer of wealth from bankers to ordinary Germans; foreign banks and enterprises were squeezed and German banks and businesses favoured protecting German jobs and businesses; foreign workers who depressed local wages and bid up local housing and other costs were encouraged to repatriate - improving the living standards of Germans; environmental regulations were put in place to ensure that irresponsible resource exploiters paid for the costs of their actions and that land, water and air resources that belonged to the whole nation were protected from pollution and private plunder; workers were guaranteed holidays and living wages for the first time; parents of young children received cash subsidies from the government to help with their extra expenses; educational opportunities and home ownership were extended and all Germans were guaranteed health care; family farms were defended against take-over by large agricultural combines, and so on.
Like I said before, this combination of benefits - and they are enormously beneficial to ordinary people - does not obtain in any single country on the planet today. Far from being a special case of failure or criminality in regard to these issues, the Third Reich, in shifting policy in this direction and to this extent was a shining example of the kind of government most ordinary people would love to have serving them! It’s perverse in the extreme to single out the National Socialists for special criticism over these issues where by any objective standard they were unusually humane and sympathetic to the needs of ordinary workers.
And as we also had gone over in the Kollerstrom/Barrett thread … where US bankers made relatively minor investments in the private economy of the Third Reich they were acting as profit-seeking international investors. So what? They did not fund Hitler or the National Socialists directly. See Veronica Clark, ‘Demystification of the Birth and Funding of the NSDAP’. This is in stark contrast to the way US bankers funded Lenin and later Stalin directly and with express ethnic and political goals. Finally, National Socialism meant just that, a coming together and behind the national idea of all the members of society. The name implied and was understood to mean that the nation as an organic union was what mattered most, not any one factions’s private economic interests, be it workers or owners of capital. They weren’t attempting to trick socialists or protect billionaires, they were saying to both that some things mattered more than money.
These are the facts, Dave.
Well put Nick.
DeleteThis podcast by Mark Weber takes apart the popular and false views about the economic situation under Hitler. Cited are many prominent historians and economists.
Wow, great thread, lots of interesting comments. What I like about Mike Harris and James Fetzer is both of them are concerned with pinning down provable facts before they speculate about what might be going on behind the scenes.
ReplyDeleteeamonnc, interesting question about the ammo story but publicizing the tenders can only discredit the gummint and the mainstream media that is silent on the issue. Credit is the only thing owed to the independent press that is exposing the story even if it’s a gummint psy-op. And what’s wrong with Alex Jones’ style? He’s a truly talented radio host and his regular brag about being the guy who’s ‘woken up more people than any other’ is likely true. I have problems with him, mainly concerning what he leaves unsaid, but to complain about his style is unfair and asks him to be someone other than his big fat effective self.
atlantabill, what makes you say Mike Harris is a racist? I think you only say that because he says what he says while white and Marxists have been taught not to like white people by their Jewish bosses. I agree with previous commenters that he’s just proposing that white people act defensively against racism directed at them. And it seems to me that the government, the schools, the media (regular and alternative) are all far more hostile to Paul Josef Goebbels and Henry Ford and their social and economic ideas than they are to Marxists. Doesn’t that suggest that the powers that be fear a fair hearing for Goebbels and Ford more than Marx? If it’s true that Ford paid his workers around three times the going rate, I can see why the plutocrats hate him, even leaving aside his anti-war stance.
Dave Fryett, I don’t know if what you say is correct about nazi theoreticians drawing a contrast between the styles of Jewish capitalism vs German capitalism, I’d actually like if you could refer me to some texts or publish some quotations here, but I can’t help wondering if such a contrast might not be perfectly valid. It isn’t difficult to divine an ethnic dimension to the competing values of Main Street vs Wall Street, or the ‘Bushes’ and the ‘Smartos’ as Marc Faber called the two tribes in his classic article ‘Irreparable Cracks in the Financial System’.
ReplyDeleteIf there were not an ethnic dimension to Wall Street vs Main Street we’d expect Jews to play little role in high finance in correspondence with their very small numbers in the population (or among the ranks of farmers, carpenters, janitors etc.), but Mike Stathis at Veterans Today does a very good job of documenting the facts about that question, for example his list of the primary shareholders of the Federal Reserve Bank and description of their owners/management:
Rothschild Bank of London – Jewish owned and run
Rothschild Bank of Berlin - Jewish owned and run
Goldman Sachs Bank of New York - Jewish owned and run
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York - Jewish owned and run
American Express - Jewish owned and run
Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris - Jewish owned and run
Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy - Jewish owned and run
Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany - Jewish owned and run
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam - Jewish owned and run
Former Lehman Brothers Bank of New York - Jewish owned and run
Chase Manhattan Bank - Jewish owned and run
Former Bear Stearns - Jewish owned and run
Further, it’s well known to listeners of truth movement radio that since the FR came into existence the dollar has lost 90% plus of its purchasing value. So how does this with compare with pre-FR days when the Jews took such a grip on the US economy? Better? Worse? Equal?
What about levels of national debt? Individual indebtedness? America’s trade balance? American’s wages? I’m pretty sure that the nazi’s warnings about Jewish capitalism might appear borne out if we had a clear accounting of these numbers. But maybe not.
Later you say that fascist ideas are still very much with us, and that this is possible as radical and/or labor history is taboo and as such is not taught in schools, but this is the same strange idea that atlantabill has: namely that the powers that be are more hostile to radical ideas about labor or the economy than to fascism. This is complete nonsense and obviously so. You’re either a very poor reader of the culture at large or a fkn liar. Kids walk around universities with Che and hammer and sickle t-shirts and they’re cool, but anyone trying to do that with a Hitler or swastika t-shirt would be lynched. This is down to the programming we’ve had, delivered primarily through the tube, and designed to serve the interests of whoever the hell runs things. Rich racist Jews mainly, in my opinion.
The idea that old-left ideas about money or labor are taboo, especially in comparison with fascism is just absurd, so if fascist ideas are still with us despite the very real attempts to make them taboo (unlike radical and/or labor history ideas) then maybe there’s some value to those ideas?
Nick Dean, nice point similar to eamonnc’s about the ammo. Who knows whether those guys have dual citizenship, and if they don’t know, why are they constantly repeating it?
ReplyDeleteyalfnsm, I don’t think atlantabill is necessarily Jewish. It may have been true at one time that practically all American Jews were Marxists and practically all American Marxists were Jews, but for the most part American Jews have moved on. Now that they own almost everything, they aren’t so focussed on breaking up ownership structures. Yeah, surprising. I know. Most Marxists today are just failures with chips on their shoulders, a high IQ but little humanity, and limited exposure to alternative economic theories. Nice quotes.
Stooy44, great point. Pretty much all Jones does is quote from mainstream and gummint sources and extrapolate from that. But he’d struggle to sustain his career if even one quarter of the stuff he hypes turns out false so I think you may be on the wrong track. However there are two other ways to possibly read that. 1) The generous one, he’s proving his case. Or 2) he’s predictive programming his audience. Listen to this recent show from 42 minutes though 51:35, and see how emphatic and repetitive he is on phrases about ‘it will come’, ‘this is going to happen’, ‘you are going to a camp’. Minutes earlier in the show he had talked about a new Bruce Willis film possibly being a predictive programming op. Why the hell would someone aware of such things produce programming like this on a daily basis unless he were up to the same thing? I do wonder …
http://wp.alexjonespodcasts.com/october2012/2012-10-22-monday-infowars-nightly-news-russell-means-passes-away
That clip of Jones is horrifying. To think some people listen to that guy for hours everyday ... Very disturbing.
ReplyDelete