Interesting show. My current understanding is that McVeigh was an expendable insider convinced he would not really be executed, and that he was used primarily to smear/discredit the burgeoning militia movement. OKC seems to have been a rehearsal for 911. As such, as it now appears that the 911 victims were nearly all [or maybe completely] faked, I'm wondering if Harmon knows of anyone who has done any serious , deep investigation into the alleged OKC victims? As far as the Constitution and Bill of Rights goes, Lysander Spooner exposed it as a fraud over 150 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_TreasonAlso, Harmon might not be aware that the Bill of Rights was made more or less useless _before_ it was ever ratified by the individual states, via the Judiciary Act of 1789, paragraph 25 of which gave the Supreme Court the ultimate authority to "interpret" the stipulations of the Bill of Rights: http://onebornfree-mythbusters.blogspot.com/2010/05/1789-judiciary-act-scam.htmlRegards, onebornfree
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Great to hear you Jim including the various demolition theories without bias. Great minds and great conversation!
McVeigh wasn't executed. he was seen to smile following his 'lethal' injections.
pshea said :"McVeigh wasn't executed. .." A distinct possibility:-) . Do you know of any in depth OKC alleged victim investigation[s], pshea ? Regards, obf
I don't obf. but it does seem pretty clear to me that we are dealing with another '9/11' (from what I have seen from the thread in cluesforum, and indeed from the very familiar associated narrative - with so many of it's conspiracy rabbit holes offered up to us so effortlessly!). these type and scale deceptions require the cooperation of hundreds, and hundreds may go along with a mass hoax, but they will not go along with a mass murder (especially the mass murder of children!)... please nail jim on the facts the next time obf and perhaps chat to him before hand about the structure you would like the interview to take -maybe reminding him (not so) gently to listen more, and repeat repeat less! (although i'm tending to think that jim is playing his role in the game (a good role in a good game) - to think that he has not read the vicsim report or is not aware of the septemberclues and cluesforrum findings is just plain stupid. this is jim fetzer for god's sake! just as culto 'solved' the jfk faked assassination, simon, hoi and co. have 'solved' the faked 9/11! now is an important time for these truths to be broadcast as more and more are waking up (as I believe was the plan all along!). you have a great voice. sing loud, my friend.
pshea said "please nail jim on the facts the next time obf and perhaps chat to him before hand about the structure you would like the interview to take -maybe reminding him (not so) gently to listen more, and repeat repeat less! ..... to think that he has not read the vicsim report or is not aware of the septemberclues and cluesforrum findings is just plain stupid." Jim asked me out of the blue to come on - that, after telling me on Veterans Today back in May that I was a "buffoon", amongst other things, and that he'd likely never have me back on again! 2 days later he asks me to come back on on! So Mr Fetzer "blows hot and cold" as far as I can see. There is simply no way to control the outcome on his show. I had no real idea beforehand what he wanted to specifically discuss. I'll try to implement your suggestions but I'm not sure it will do any good- its his show after all. Thanks for the voice compliment. My youtube music channel[mostly me live solo] is here: https://www.youtube.com/user/onebornfreeRegards, onebornfree.
The Murrah Building and Six World Trade were both destroyed in the same manner - mini-nukes. In fact WTC 6 is the mini-nuke poster child.
My favorite part of this fantasy theory is the pineapple nuke. If this miniaturization of the nuclear bomb hoax was true, then we need to immediately surround Costa Rica and start inspecting their biggest export, one by one. I am sure Dole will he happy to dole out the dough. Heck, if it can double their profits, why not? What's next? Banana nukes? Obf and Pshea have it right. This was another military media hoax for fear and money like 9/11.
Don [presumably Don Fox] said :"The Murrah Building and Six World Trade were both destroyed in the same manner - mini-nukes." Even if that were true, [which it probably is not, _if_ Gen. Partin's account is to be believed], I cannot for the life of me see that its of any real importance exactly how the Murrah, nor the WTC complex, were destroyed. The Murrah in particular would have been easy to partially destroy with "normal" explosives. And as with 911 it really makes no difference in the end. It was an inside job. Endlessly analyzing obviously faked videos and photos of the various WTC complex destructions is a waste of time as far as I can see. That "scientists" have been involved in this ongoing spectacle, without ever first even having the presence of mind to stick to their methodology and first analyze all photos and videos to determine whether or not they are in fact genuine, and to be encouraged in those egregiously non-scientific procedures by a professor of the science of philosophy, boggles my mind! :-) .Regards, onebornfree
As I have said before no videos or photos are necessary to prove the WTC buildings were nuked. We have dust sample evidence from the USGS that clearly shows uranium-235 fission took place at Ground Zero. The Department of Energy water samples show elevated levels of tritium which is a tell tale sign that nuclear fusion took place at Ground Zero. We have a lot of other evidence that corroborates the dust and water samples: it took 99 days to put the fires out at Ground Zero, ground temps were 600 - 2,000 °F for 6 months after 9/11, thousands of tons of steel, concrete and gypsum were vaporized.Why is this important? Determining the method of destruction of these buildings narrows down the list of suspects. Not to mention all of the responders who are dead or dying from cancer due to radiation exposure at Ground Zero.
Don , some questions for you to perhaps seriously consider [ you do not have to reply here].Don said: " As I have said before no videos or photos are necessary to prove the WTC buildings were nuked." Then why are your articles at Veteran's Today [and your own website] always resplendent with wholly unverified video clips and photos that you insist support/prove your mini-nuke hypothesis?As for the USGS and DOE "evidence" you cite, these are just 2 minor parts of the wholly corrupt US government itself- why would you believe _anything_ it/they say in the first place? Don said: "Determining the method of destruction of these buildings narrows down the list of suspects. " What are you implying- that the perp was _not_ the US government? And if you are _not_ implying that, why are you so desperate to believe that parts of it [USGS +DOE] are in any way being truthful? Regards, onebornfree.
The extant photos and videos make it easier to explain this stuff to the public which is what I'm trying to do. They also tend to prove my thesis that the buildings were nuked. Why did it take 99 days to put the fires out at Ground Zero? What fire burns that long? Why were the temperatures 600 - 2,000 °F for SIX MONTHS after 9/11? Those two points alone pretty much make the case for nukes. The DOE and USGS data show what one would expect to find at a nuclear Ground Zero. The government's own data refutes their official position - similar to the Warren Report.The evidence shows that the Mossad was the main perp behind the 9/11 scam. See our article 2 + 2 = Israel Nuked the WTC on 9/11
Don said :he extant photos and videos make it easier to explain this stuff to the public which is what I'm trying to do. They also tend to prove my thesis that the buildings were nuked. " How can completely unverified videos/photos explain anything? Don said :" Why did it take 99 days to put the fires out at Ground Zero? What fire burns that long? Why were the temperatures 600 - 2,000 °F for SIX MONTHS after 9/11? Those two points alone pretty much make the case for nukes." How do you know for certain that any part of that is even true? All of these alleged "facts" were fed to you by the media, which in turn was fed this stuff by the US government. Fact: the US media is just the propaganda arm of the US military- nothing more. Don said: "The evidence shows that the Mossad was the main perp behind the 9/11 scam. " Mossad, Schmossad! The Israeli government is nothing more than an integral part of the far larger USG. A satellite state, no less. To act as if Israel is some distinct entity with its own unstoppable self-serving agenda, and that it can manipulate the USG as only it wishes is to act in complete denial of both the origins of the state of Israel and the laws of human action. The USG owns Israel, not the other way around.The "mini-nukes were used and therefor it must have been da jewz dun it " argument is so full of holes its not even funny. Pure speculation on your part, nothing more [although there is nothing wrong with speculation, as long as it is recognized as such, instead of being taken as some sort of irrefutable "truth". ]Regards, onebornfree
I think your true colors are starting to show OBF. The only people arrested on 9/11 were Israeli Mossad agents. Mike Rivero has an excellent post on this:A Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11:The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards. Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery."They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me" said a witness.[T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact. Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot."It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park." In November 2001 the Dancing Israelis appeared on a talk show and said they were there to document the event. Who knew there would be an event to document? Obviously they were in on it. Don't forget about all of the dual Israeli citizens in the Bush administration either.Israel's fingerprints are ALL OVER 9/11. If you deny that you're completely out to lunch. The use of nukes on 9/11 is a proven scientific FACT. Unless you can show how the USGS or DOE reports are flawed then put a sock in it. Just saying they're fake isn't good enough. You need to produce some evidence that they have been faked.
Don said: "Israel's fingerprints are ALL OVER 9/11. If you deny that you're completely out to lunch. " .I have never claimed Israel was _not_ involved in 911 in some way. Governments are made up of various factions, all struggling for control. The bigger the government the more easy it is to see this. The fact of the matter is that in reality there is no way to know the extent of Israel's involvement, nor of the British governments, the French, the Saudis and God knows who else!The main difference between yourself and me is that you continue to delude yourself into believing that you have some way of knowing for certain whatever it is you think you know, based on second hand info sources, not even on original,real research! The NYT is just like the rest of the MSM, an organ of the USG, there is no good reason to believe it is telling the truth about any of this- including "dancing Israelis". But you appear to have swallowed its crap "hook line and sinker", for no good reason other than pure naivete - assuming you are not just another paid shill/disinfo agent. If naivete is the reason, I guess I'm not really surprised - you are also naively assuming that 2 USG agencies are being truthful and that their "findings" are in some way scientific !Bald fact: _none_ of the name "scientific" 911 researchers [yourselves+ Hall, Jones, Wood etc. have done 1 iota of independent scientific research on 911. Every part of the findings of every one of your guys "scientific research" is nothing more than the 2nd hand regurgitation of the alleged findings of other pseudo-scientific orgs. such as the USGS and the DOE, supposedly "backed up" by completely unverified "eye witness testimony", plus completely unverified photos and video footage, that is then supposedly set in stone as "truth" by the alleged honest "reporting" of MSM government propaganda outlets such as the NYT. All of which leads you to " Israel dun 911 all by itself"? Yeah , riiiiiight! :-) Regards, onebornfree
Yep. The whole thing was made up. Two 500,000 ton buildings didn't really disappear from the Manhattan skyline in less than 30 seconds. Firefighters sprayed over a million liters of imaginary water on imaginary fires for 99 days to sucker the public. Manhattan wasn't really covered in a fine dust powder. That was all actors dressed up in business suits covered in dust. 1,400 cars weren't really toasted near Ground Zero. The USGS chemists looking for asbestos slipped in some barium, strontium, uranium, thorium, yttrium, copper and zinc into the dust samples to make it look like nuclear fission (and ternary fission) took place to hide the real unknown cause of destruction of the buildings. And of course the 9/11 Wars that followed were a huge windfall for the US Treasury and the American people. If Israel derived any benefit from the trillions of dollars spent killing Iraqis and Afghanis it was just a coincidence.
In the very tricky business of dissecting the falsehoods of official history, one should never forget that there are often competing factions within factions -- and parallel conspirators plotting either to exploit, cancel, enhance, or re-direct the conspiracies of other plotters.A prime case in point: the JFK Murder. In 1961 the fascistic Joint Chiefs of Staff passionately wanted to invade Cuba and humiliate Russia, even at the risk of WWIII, which they were "sure" was winnable. ("We might get our hair mussed, but...") When all previous attempts to enlist the uncooperative young President in their mad scheme failed (the Cuban Missle Crisis, Operation Northwoods, et. al.) they opted instead to lend their support to one of the several ongoing plots, swirling about the Washington underworld at the time, to assassinate him... and blame Castro for sponsoring the deed! Cooler (albeit still malevolent) heads prevailed (i.e. LBJ, Hoover, Warren, the intel spooks, etc.) and WWIII was providentially averted by their tightly controlling the subsequent "investigation" and assuring the public that Ozzie was NOT a "Castro agent" (despite all the planted evidence to that effect which then had to be discredited and discarded) but merely a "crazed lone nut".JFK's multitudinous enemies (the Mob, Big Oil, the Fed Banksters, nuke-craving Israel, the Langley Boys, etc.) were all delighted to get a new Prez who had pledged to be far more permissive of their various evil agendas -- and even the generals and the arms merchants were quickly placated with the promise of a huge, protracted, proxy war in Southeast Asia, one that would not only enrich the merchants of violent death (via billions for fresh bombs, guns, planes and helicopters) but also secure the essential-to-the-money-laundering-banksters heroin trade from the Golden Triangle, for decades to come.More recent example: The OKC Bombing. The Neocon/Israel-firster/PNAC fanatics were absolutely delighted when the generals helped them convince Daddy Bush to stage the 1991 Gulf War, essential as it was in keeping the Military-Industrial Complex humming after the 1989 Collapse of the Soviet Empire robbed the USA of a formidable "enemy".But when the Iraqi Army had been successfully driven out of Kuwait and thoroughly decimated (via war-crime style massacring) during their long march of retreat, Bush the Elder took the generals' advice to declare victory and quit cold. A boots-on-the-ground invasion of Bagdad, they argued, would be foolhardy and too costly, since it would then entail several years of occupation, insurgency, and nation-building. But the Zionist Fifth Column was far from satisfied with this insufficiently bloody state of affairs, leaving in place as it did a sworn enemy of "The Chosen State," no matter how weakened by defeat and sanctions. So, the plotters employed their massive political-manipulation machinery to deny Daddy B a second term and began banking on a new, comparably spooked-up Oval Office tenant (the bastard Rockefeller descendant and sex maniac from Mena) to do their dirty work.The casus belli (to justify an all-out invasion of Iraq) they settled on was a false-flag event to take place not in the Mideast, but in the American Heartland -- namely Oklahoma City. And why, you might ask..,(continued)
(continuing)Because it was a city rich with credible patsies, namely a local population which four years earlier been supplemented by the RESETTLEMENT OF A LARGE CADRE OF IRAQIS who had been granted asylum in the USA after they had rendered "services" to the American military in its rout of Saddam's once-mighty forces. "Could some of these so-called refugees have been concealing their continuing loyalty to Saddam?" the sayanim-controlled media would quickly and loudly ask, in the wake of the bombs going off at the Federal Building -- and the hunt would be on to catch the "dark-skinned, Mideastern-looking" villains who had sought to violently avenge their dear leader's 1991 defeat at American hands.Once caught, the patsies would be neatly framed with "slam-dunk" evidence that they were acting on orders from Bagdad, and because of the horrendous carnage (think of the little children butchered in the daycare centre!) Congress would have no choice but to authorise invasive war with (Israel's longtime enemy) IRAQ!But the neocons' warmongering part of the plot was ultimately FOILED, apparently by other clever factions within the "shadow government" with different immediate priorities, namely storing-and-destroying certain government records harmful to the Clintonistas, and ramping up domestic paranoia about militia-style "hate groups in the Heartland" whose existence would help justify enacting (unconstitutional, of course) new police-state statutes. The behind-the-scenes struggle between the factions lasted a mere 72 hours, after which the media drumbeat about "dark-skinned Mideastern-looking" suspects ceased abruptly, to be replaced by a burgeoning narrative about a disgruntled ex-soldier who foolishly went for a drive without license plates.And the Zionist Fifth Column bided their time for a season and more, confident that the generals and the spooks and the arms merchants and the banksters would eventually find common cause again in making war on Iraq. And they finally did, but only as grudging payback for acquiescence in the staging of 9/11, which had as its primary goal the re-stabilisation of a global heroin trade that had by 2001 shifted its primary sourcing from Southeast Asia to the hills of Afghanistan.Toppling Saddam, while of prime importance to the Zio-faction, was distinctly a lesser priority of the other factions.But hey, they finally pulled off BOTH mass-murder/human-sacrifice rituals on quite a grand scale after all, didn't they, despite some factional differences along the way.And even if you DON'T believe in Satanic possession, you'll have to admit that these perps perform a pretty convincing imitation of it.